non believers what if your wrong ? (page 44)

cofty

Off to bed.

I will leave you with a reminder of my question, see you tomorrow.

Why can't god just forgive those that he chooses to forgive? Why did he have to have Jesus die a bloody violent death beofre he would/could forgive?

sizemik

unstop . . .

follow me through this . . .

The Bible tells us that "the wages of sin is death" . . . and "he who has died is acquitted of his sin" . . . so all those who have died have paid their own price . . . Christ's sacrifice is unnecassary for these ones. But in Revelation, there are those ressurected ones, who will simply not learn righteousness, and they are "as the sands of the sea"

So these ones are not acquitted of their sin after all otherwise they wouldn't need to learn righteousness.

If they indeed have been acquitted as the Bible says . . . they are perfect. And yet huge numbers sin and are punished again . . . which means the perfect man is still flawed somehow.

In the mean time there is a great deal of death and slaughter taking place . . . and very few survive the process . . . a process designed by a perfect and wise God.

The concept of sin and redemption is attractive because it holds the promise of paradise or heavenly life. But when you look deeper, as snare suggested, the whole concept is full of holes . . . and irreconcilable concepts. It's totally flawed and illogical. It makes absolutely no sense.

It's recognising these inexplicables that prompts one to stop and consider the whole shebang needs examination . . . and looking outside of such flawed priciples for more saisfying explanations becomes attractive. Give yourself that chance. Riding on top of the wooden horse won't get you through the gate . . . you need to look inside and get to know the animal.

unstopableravens

snare welcome heaven is right around the corner. or should i say brother snare

unstopableravens

siz mik okay this was my point earlier if you can read romans 6.1-11 the dying in thoses verse is not talking about physical death but in referance to sin romans 6:23 is not saying that a person death is paying for sin but because we sin we die and if aperson dies without there sin forgiven than its not good john 8:24

tec

knowing Christ, and knowing he never contradicted the father

True that he never contradicted His Father. All He taught was FROM His Father. But He did correct some misapplication and understanding of the various laws, and He did give a reason as to why some of those laws were in place. Not because His Father gave them or though that they were true... but because the hearts of the people were too hard to hear and follow the truth. (such as the law on divorce that Moses gave them, and that is just an example... if you apply that reasoning to the rest of the law, you can beging to understand some of why they had 'eye for eye' instead of 'turn the other cheek' as Christ corrected)

Peace,

tammy

sizemik

So all the non-bible believers who have never heard of Christ and died are not acquitted? That's not what the bible says. It says the wages of sin is death . . . debt payed. Simple principle.

Hey . . . a WTS article once asked . . . "Is it wise to examine your religion?" Well, they had another motive, but it's probably the only bit of advice those clowns came up with worth the paper it was written on. Even Christ said to dig down deep and build on solid ground . . . probably among the best advice he gave as well IMO.

I know of a story about three other dudes who had housing problems. The first two used straw and sticks, and spent a lot of time running between houses. When they finally got to safety the story was ending. Isn't it a better idea to build with bricks from the get-go? Then you can sit down by the fire, have a cup of tea, forget about the big bad wolf, and do something meaningful and worthwhile with the time you've got. I don't say that to trivialise . . . because it's a valid lesson. You just need to pick your building material wisely.

unstopableravens

sorry siz mik i think you are going off what the wt teaches about romans 6 :23 listin to the words what doing the paying sin or death the wages "sin" pays is death. meaning because we sin we die not we sin so death pays for sin please understand what im saying nothing but christ pays for our sins

sizemik

He who has died is acquitted. You can add and subtract shades of meaning to make it all fit till the cows come home.

The redemption, sacrifice, death and ressurection idea is flawed on multiple levels. If you twist one scripture it won't gel with others. There's no way to reconcile the different concepts.

How deep you dig is more important than what you find along the way. The choice is yours though. I'm off for a nap.

tec

Death is a consequence of sin... not an acquittal.

Don't mean to butt in to your discussion (okay, yeah I do, lol). Just wanted to throw that in there for consideration.

Peace,

tammy

unstopableravens

cofty ok now onto ur next question about good just forgiving people without have the death of his son or anyone, if you went to court and someone was on trail for a crime and the judge believed the person was really sorry and he said you no sir you commited a robbery and stole 10,000 dollars and beat up that old couple who you stole from but ur sorry so im going to let this slide and have a good day. many would call into question what kind of judge is this wheres the payment for his crime where the justice. so god could do that just forgive but he would not be just in doing so.

non believers what if your wrong ?

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