siz mik please get ur bible read romans 6:1-11 you tell me if its is physical or spirtual. you guys wanted me answer questions i am trusting you to do the same
non believers what if your wrong ?
by unstopableravens 546 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Knowsnothing
Let's start with sin, and specifically original sin. It is because of Adam and Eve we sin, correct?
We inherit sin. We've no choice in the matter. God hates, detests sin. Sin is whatever he deems it to be. Sin is what God doesn't like, what doesn't meet up to his standards. The minute we are born, we are already on God's black list! Since debt is always used as an analogy to understand sin, let's go down that avenue.
God is essentially a banker, one that hands out loans. Without him you can't start up a business (have life). In the case of Adam and Eve, he invested in them, in their life, with the hopes of returns (procreation, more human life). He gave them certain conditions they must agree to, and he wouldn't charge them anything. He would only collect debt (sin/death and transmission of sin/death to offspring) if they failed their side of the deal (eating from the tree/disobedience). They indeed did, and God collected. Here's the deal. People that weren't even born yet were entered into a contract they weren't there for! When these people come into being, they are already being asked to pay a debt they didn't even know about! The worse part? The banker has unlimited resources, but because he must stick to his own contract, he will continue to collect the debt time after time! What avarice!
At this point, I could mention Jesus, the nice wealthy guy comes in and pays it all off. Before we go any further, ask yourself, why do we even need to go that far? God already had the resources to pay the debt, he just didn't want to! It's not even fair to accept the nice guy's offer. All the banker has to do to forgive the debt.... is forgive the debt!
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sizemik
We're sinners because of inherited sin . . . if we didn't inherit it we wouldn't need the benefit of the ransom . . . we'd be perfect. Paul called it our "inner nature" an inherited flaw that all the learning in the world couldn't negate no matter how he tried. He praised the provision of Christ at the end of Rom 7. Inherited from who? . . . Adam. Christ was called the second Adam, a corresponding ransom . . . so he negated sin . . . Adamic sin.
How can a ressurected person need to learn righteousness unless he still carries the adamic flaw?. Adam didn't need to learn righteousness because he was perfect. Now he has negated adamic sin, and yet ressurrected ones who return to life after the ransom is paid still need to learn righteousness . . . a huge number fail and die again.
If you can reconcile that and still make sense . . . then praise Jah or Yahweh or Jesus or the Lord or whoever you call him . . . he's given you a better brain than me. I definitely need to rest it.
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NewChapter
sorry siz mik i think you are going off what the wt teaches about romans 6 :23 listin to the words what doing the paying sin or death the wages "sin" pays is death. meaning because we sin we die not we sin so death pays for sin please understand what im saying nothing but christ pays for our sins
You seem to be ignoring that the bible says that when we die, we are acquitted of our sins. And Tec, you go with the idea that we die because we sin (the wages) but brush aside the acquittal part (you said, not an acquittal). I assume you think that if we are not acquitted, then sentence is yet to be passed?
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unstopableravens
hey knowsnothing did you read what i wrote to cofty on the last page? i think 22
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unstopableravens
new chapter same thing i just said to siz mik please read romans 6:1-11 is it physical or spirtual?please read it
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sizemik
Why do we sin? . . . it's inherited . . . Adamic
Spiritual sin and physical sin were one and the same for Adam . . . disobedience (spiritual) meant decay and death (physical). Adam, the first man through whom sin entered into the world and death through sin. It's splitting hairs to create a strawman to seperate them as distinct.
If Christ's sacrifice only redeemed from spiritual sin (as expressed at the end of the chapter), then it doesn't cover physical death. Adam's sin is not fully redeemed by his sacrifice. There's no corresponding. The bread that is eaten (his body) is worthless.
Now I'm repeating myself, which is a repetitive action, which gives me a headache.
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unstopableravens
what roman 6;7 not apllying to all because not all do what verses 1-11 is talking about unlike all people who do physcaly die
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Knowsnothing
Unstopableravens
Post 176 of 179
Since 12/12/2010cofty ok now onto ur next question about good just forgiving people without have the death of his son or anyone, if you went to court and someone was on trail for a crime and the judge believed the person was really sorry and he said you no sir you commited a robbery and stole 10,000 dollars and beat up that old couple who you stole from but ur sorry so im going to let this slide and have a good day. many would call into question what kind of judge is this wheres the payment for his crime where the justice. so god could do that just forgive but he would not be just in doing so.
Here is where your analogy fails. This guy purposely did something wrong. Inherited sin means you did something wrong, but not on purpose. Would it be fair if the judge didn't take this into account?
Another thing is this. Why would the judge let someone else get jail time, for something you did wrong. Only you can serve time for something you've done wrong, no one else can do that for you. It's not a question about money, it's a question about justice, about law.
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tec
And Tec, you go with the idea that we die because we sin (the wages) but brush aside the acquittal part (you said, not an acquittal). I assume you think that if we are not acquitted, then sentence is yet to be passed?
Why do you insert acquittal into it to begin with? Genuine question.
You do assume correct ( I think ). The second death is the judgment (sentence). Those who belong to Christ have no fear of this 'second death'; they have life, because Christ IS the Life... and they 'eat of' Him. (more than just a ritual) We have 'acquittal' through Him. Those whose names are written in the book of life (based upon deeds/mercy/whatever Christ determines) are also granted life.
Peace,
tammy