If Jesus was the" Greatest Teacher" the" Son of God" then why ?...........

by smiddy 68 Replies latest jw friends

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  xchange

  Tec - He speaks to me, in spirit, and that is how I can have any degree of certainty about anything; if he teaches me something or guides me to understand.

  I can ask Him, to have certainty.

  So the answer is, yes, I can say with certainty on the things that He has confirmed to me.

  (Some other things I can think are correct, because they resonate or because they are in unity with Him and His teachings.)

  Well, I wasn't asking what 'He' is saying to you. I'm talking about statements that were written down by people that they attribute to some guy named Jesus. Can you say with 100% certainty that those sayings came directly from Jesus. Or, is it quite possibly just made up stuff, regardless of what resonates in you.
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  tec

  If He confirms it, then yes, I can say with 100% certainty. If the thing written down is TRUE (as this one is, confirmed to me because He does speak and teach and guide me), then I can speak with some degree of certainty that what was written to have happened - in this case, that Christ said this thing at that time - DID happen.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  xchange

  Tec - If He confirms it, then yes, I can say with 100% certainty. If the thing written down is TRUE (as this one is, confirmed to me because He does speak and teach and guide me), then I can speak with some degree of certainty that what was written to have happened - in this case, that Christ said this thing at that time - DID happen.

  But you still don't know if he actually said those things. As you said earlier, you were not in Jerusalem at that time.

  The fact of the matter is that anyone could have said those things and centuries later, those sayings/statements could resonate with anyone of us. That doesn't mean Jesus actually said those things. It could have been a guy name Bert instead but mistakenly atrributed to that other guy named Jesus.
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  tec

  But you still don't know if he actually said those things. As you said earlier, you were not in Jerusalem at that time.

  We are going around and around.

  If HE tells me or confirms it to me, then I know. If He does not...then I have to reason on my own. If what was written is true, then it makes sense that the one attributed with having spoken that truth... is also true.

  I have no reason to doubt the one who attributed this to Christ, since what Christ is written to have said is the same as what Christ does now.

  Now, if I had no confirmation or anything of the sort... then yes, you are correct. I could not know, and so for all anyone knows, Tom, Dick, or Harry could have said it.

  But that is not the case here.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  xchange

  Tec - If what was written is true, then it makes sense that the one attributed with having spoken that truth... is also true.

  How so? Anyone could have said those same things and mistakenly attributed or co-opted by a guy named Jesus. Asserting that it makes sense is not necessarily so.

  Joe says that the car is blue. Decades later, Jane writes down that Frank said the car is blue. (Jane either mistakenly or by deciet attributes this saying to Frank).

  Centuries later, 'he' (Frank) tells me (somehow) that the car is blue. Therefore, car = blue and therefore Frank is real.
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  tec

  Yes, and?

  Someone said the words. If it is Christ who later does what those words attributed to him said he would do... then does it make sense that it might have been some unknown person who first said those words?

  Michale told us that Bob said he was going to visit Sue in a few weeks. Bob does visit Sue in a few weeks.

  Does it make sense to conclude that maybe it was some unknown guy who said he was going to visit Sue, instead? When it is Bob who visited Sue, and not some unknown guy?

  Peace,

  tammy
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  PSacramento

  Joe says that the car is blue. Decades later, Jane writes down that Frank said the car is blue. (Jane either mistakenly or by deciet attributes this saying to Frank).

  Centuries later, 'he' (Frank) tells me (somehow) that the car is blue. Therefore, car = blue and therefore Frank is real.

  While that is an important point and a good example, it is also important to understand that the gospels and letters were NOT written or passed on in a "vacum", one of the things that Paul does is stated that there were live witnesses to what he is preaching, witnesses that can be contacted to confirm what the gospel is and what Jesus said IN PERSON.

  Granted, in regards to the copies we have NOW, we have no such gurantees, BUT the NT documents are viewed by the majority of historians as historically reliable in that, what happened was viewed by those that wrote it and passed them on as being historically accurate.
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  sabastious

  Then why write anything down?

  Writing is a necessary evil. We wouldn't be able to agree and progress without it. However, Christ, as the Word of God, is the Author of all Scripture (including ancient wall paintings and oral-law based societies). There would be no need to add to it as a human because he would just continue "breathing" it into existence as the Spirit of Truth. His purpose on earth was to die and become a spirit, not to write Scripture.

  -Sab
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  EndofMysteries

  I am not responding based on the initial topic of this thread, but on the complaints of God giving commands and leading people directly and not using man. Here is some food for thought.

  He interacted directly with people in early times. But time and again MAN went to making idols and making other men as kings. When he lead Israel out of Egypt, the Israelites did not have to lift a finger. He was dealing directly with them for quite awhile. But they kept on not wanting to deal with him directly, they kept wanting a human king over them. So things quickly began to change. He gave in and gave them a human king. Time after time a human being king became corrupt and lead all of them into corruption. When he was dealing with them directly, they kept rebelling and going to idols and human rulers.

  So now we are living in a period of time where he isn't doing any "in the worlds face" events and sending angels and visually doing things that had been done before. And man is having man ruling, and the world is now quickly getting tired of human rulers. Everyone is saying, If there is a God, why doesn't he do anything. You know as a parent if you tell your child not to touch a stove because it's hot, they may not believe you or understand, so they have to experience it themself, if they ever touch a stove they won't do it again.

  History with Israelites and what we are living in now, shows that power corrupts. And humanity is teaching and proving to itself that we do not want human rulers, and I think it will never be asked again. So this has been an appointed time, and a lesson of tough love.
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  PSacramento

  You make a very interesting point endofmysteries