by Christ Alone 317 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Time is still involved.
That's not the definition I am using. There are several. From the link:
Theists say that God is eternally existent . How this is understood depends on which definition of eternity is used. On one hand, God may exist in eternity, a timeless existence where categories of past, present, and future just do not apply.
The bolded is what I mean by the use if the term.
Knowing what someone will CHOOSE to do with with thier own free will is NOT effecting free will at all.
Yes it does, if you are God and what you know is the unalterable future.
If time is relative and one can see present and future all at once, then knowing the future of someone doesn't effect THEIR ability to choose unless they are told what their future is/may be.
Wrong. In that universe, the future is already set, no other option is possible. Freewill is a veneer, a facade, a patina.
The post you said to re-read was the one where you told me to re-read.
I meant 9108, sorry.
Knowing what someone will CHOOSE to do with with thier own free will is NOT effecting free will at all.
In other words, to know something happens is not the same as causing it to happen.
The bolded is what I mean by the use if the term.
A timeless existence where past, present and future don't apply? How does that work, exactly? Time means nothing, past, present and future don't apply. Does anything happen? Does everything happen at once?
I meant 9108, sorry.
I know, I was busting your chops a little ;)
In other words, to know something happens is not the same as causing it to happen.
You are God, and you KNOW, it is set is stone. No other option is possible, therefore choice is nothing but an illusion.
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say we have a time machine, it is Monday, and travel one week into the future. On Sunday we see that JWoods has had his Ferrari detailed at some point during the week. We now travel back to where we originally were in time. Does our mere knowledge of the fact that JWoods detailed his Ferrari compel him to do it, or was it his free choice?
A timeless existence where past, present and future don't apply? How does that work, exactly? Time means nothing, past, present and future don't apply. Does anything happen? Does everything happen at once?
That's something to ponder. Eternity, like infinity, is something our minds are ill equipped to grasp. It is something outside of ordinary human experience.
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say we have a time machine, it is Monday, and travel one week into the future. On Sunday we see that JWoods has had his Ferrari detailed at some point during the week. We now travel back to where we originally were in time. Does our mere knowledge of the fact that JWoods detailed his Ferrari compel him to do it, or was it his free choice?
*sigh*.... Time travel again? Really? Depending on which sci fi show you are watching, it's yes, no, either or neither. Fiction is a poor substitute for a true thought experiement.
That's something to ponder. Eternity, like infinity, is something our minds are ill equipped to grasp. It is something outside of ordinary human experience.
And yet Christians routinely use it as a crutch when backed into a logical corner about God.
Knowing what someone will CHOOSE to do with with thier own free will is NOT effecting free will at all.
Yes it does, if you are God and what you know is the unalterable future.
No, it doesn't.
Know that when someone comes to a stop light that they will stop is NOT taking away their free will to NOT stop.
If time is relative and one can see present and future all at once, then knowing the future of someone doesn't effect THEIR ability to choose unless they are told what their future is/may be.
Wrong. In that universe, the future is already set, no other option is possible. Freewill is a veneer, a facade, a patina.
ONLY if the person that KNOWS the future is the one dictating it.
I know that you will post in this thread again, does that foreknowledge effect your will to do it?
