by Christ Alone 317 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Even if that is true....so?
It is true. So.... it means that the whole idea of God existing outside of time is a joke.
The field of philosophy makes extensive use of thought experiments:
This isn't philosophy. It's people making claims of fact and then retreating to science fiction in a desperate bid when basic logic and reasoning proves their claims impossible and wrong at every turn.
It is true. So.... it means that the whole idea of God existing outside of time is a joke.
So I take it that you are a Bible believer? The reason I am doing so is because you are using it as a final authority.
This isn't philosophy. It's people making claims of fact and then retreating to science fiction in a desperate bid when basic logic and reasoning proves their claims impossible and wrong at every turn.
This is a philosophical discussion, EP. God is a prominent philosophical subject (Aristotle, Descartes, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche and many many others) . There are plenty of books on the subject you can read. This thread is about an apparent paradox between omniscience and free will, which itself has been a philosophical subject for centuries.
It's people making claims of fact
OK, well then let's discuss it as an abstract subject. That was my intention anyway. If it's all a "joke" to you what's the point?
By the way, that Bible thingy you keep thumping here are some verses that could be used in support:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+1%3A17&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%201:8&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2033:27&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%203:13-14&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20peter%203:8&version=NIV
So I take it that you are a Bible believer? The reason I am doing so is because you are using it as a final authority.
I believe the Bible exists, sure.
This is a philosophical discussion, EP.
And the thought "experiments" aren't.
WHEN SOME TALK OF TIME, ARE THEY NOT MEANING "MOVEMENT THROUGH TIME" ? TIME IS ONE OF THE DIMENSIONS WE LIVE IN, AND EVER SINCE CREATION, THE BEGINNING, CREATURES AND THEN LATER MATTER, SPACE HAVE STARTED TO "MOVE" THROUGH TIME, ITS COMPULSORY, WHEREAS MOVING IN SPACE DIMENSIONS IS SOMETIMES VOLONTARY. GOD DOES NOT MOVE THROUGH TIME , HE IS IN TIME. WE LIVE IN THE NOW, A PLACE WITH ZERO LENGTH, GOD LIVES IN THE "ALWAYS" OUR FUTURE IS NOT MADE YET, WE ARE GOING INTO IT. GOD IS ALREADY THERE WAITING FOR US. BEABEOREAN.COM -----COULD GOD SEE ACTIONS THAT HAVE NOT HAPPENED YET?----DOES HE NEED TO? PERHAPS NOT, FOR HE HAS AMAZING PREDICTIVE, FORSIGHT POWERS, SCHROEDINGERS CAT NOTWITHSTANDING. BLESSINGS.
OK, well then let's discuss it as an abstract subject. That was my intention anyway. If it's all a "joke" to you what's the point?
See page 1. Already done. I didn't reference a joke. I have no idea what you are referring to with "joke" in quotes like that.
By the way, that Bible thingy you keep thumping here are some verses that could be used in support:
In support of what?
GOD DOES NOT MOVE THROUGH TIME , HE IS IN TIME. WE LIVE IN THE NOW, A PLACE WITH ZERO LENGTH, GOD LIVES IN THE "ALWAYS" OUR FUTURE IS NOT MADE YET, WE ARE GOING INTO IT. GOD IS ALREADY THERE WAITING FOR US.
WELL THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. IF THE FUTURE IS NOT MADE, THEN HE CANNOT BE THERE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST.
I believe the Bible exists, sure.
You know that's not what I mean.
And the thought "experiments" aren't.
They are.
See page 1. Already done. I didn't reference a joke. I have no idea what you are referring to with "joke" in quotes like that.
You are the one going around saying "this is a joke."
They are.
Sorry, nope. There is no experiment aspect to it. No logical or mathematical results. You might as well argue what it means for the Millenium Falcon to make the Kessel run in 21 parsecs.
You know that's not what I mean.
Indeed I do. Why does it matter whether I believe in the Bible or not?
You are the one going around saying "this is a joke."
Is there something in particular I have been running around calling a joke? I did say the idea of God existing outside of time as a joke because people keep throwing up Scriptures to prove that and none of them say what people are claiming.
Sorry, nope. There is no experiment aspect to it. No logical or mathematical results.
According to wikipedia, this is the definition of a thought experiment:
A thought experiment or Gedankenexperiment (from German ) considers some hypothesis , theory , [1] or principle for the purpose of thinking through its consequences. Given the structure of the experiment, it may or may not be possible to actually perform it, and, in the case that it is possible for it to be performed, there need be no intention of any kind to actually perform the experiment in question. The common goal of a thought experiment is to explore the potential consequences of the principle in question.
The theory of some in our case on this thread, is that foreknowledge nullifies free will. The thought experiment I proposed calls the principle into question.
The thought experiement is this:
If you could travel to the future, and witness events produced by free choices, and then travel back, would that render those choices not free?
That's every bit as valid a thought experiment as the ones I listed earlier.
Indeed I do. Why does it matter whether I believe in the Bible or not?
You are quoting it as an authority on the subject, and alleging that an absence of the mention timelessness renders the argument a joke. That tactic is a joke to me, unless you are a person who believes in the Bible as the sole source of truth on these matters. I do not subscribe to that view.
