by MsGrowingGirl20 643 Replies latest members private
Sure, probably because we are hardwired for it, no?
Hardwired for it? Not sure what you mean... I mean, my car isn't hardwired specifically to be rained in, but if I leave the sunroof open, it can happen.
What of those whose faith is not based on this 'religious experience'?
I would be curious how you have faith without some type of religious experience.
I would be curious how you have faith without some type of religious experience.
Perhaps you should define religious experience.
I think as per that video... 'religious experience' is purely an emotional reaction; and as we can see, emotion can be manipulated.
Peace to you,
tammy
Perhaps you should define religious experience.
I purposefully left it vague so you could use any kind you like.
Hardwired for it? Not sure what you mean... I mean, my car isn't hardwired specifically to be rained in, but if I leave the sunroof open, it can happen.
Instead of "hardwired" would "predisposed to believe" be a better way of putting it?
I purposefully left it vague so you could use any kind you like
Well, I would not use it at all... so that is why I asked.
Peace,
tammy
Instead of "hardwired" would "predisposed to believe" be a better way of putting it?
I would suggest that it's more "predispised to find patterns and answers in the world around us". It was a wonderful survival technique to both find food and escape predation. Once our brains got powerful enough, we started looking for patterns and answers in things like "why does the mountain make smoke? What causes water to get higher and lower at certain times of day?" Before science, gods and demons and spirits are what seemed like a good idea as answers. Now that we have science providing real answers, we see the unexplainable explanations falling by the wayside. I think there will always be some religion, some faith, something science doesn't know but, slowly but surely the pendulum is moving towards "actual answers".
Well, I would not use it at all... so that is why I asked.
So you had faith without any type of religious experience? No reading the Bible and feeling good about what says, getting a warm glow during a sermon, no feeling that Jesus had done something for you?
times may be touble what come with assuming - Shelby
truth is I have a way with words that even you can't undermine, sorry. - Shelby
Are the death the end of all concious life?
Greetings, good morning, and peace to you, dear John Mann. I would like to respond to this, if you will indulge me - thank you!
I am not sure exactly what you're asking due to your wording, but I THINK you mean, "IS death the end of all conscious life." I mean, you could mean is death AT the end of all conscious life, and the answer to that is no. The end of all conscious life... is destruction. Of the body AND the spirit. Death is just a state where the body disintegrates and returns to the earth... but the spirit... consciousness... sleeps. Until it is awakened. Now you and others might ask how it is that I can say that with certainty (confidence/conviction), having never died myself... and my response would be that I do based on the evidence I was given.
To help you understand, let's look at the meaning/etymology of word "evidence". The "Online Etymology Dictionary" defines it as:
"c.1300, "appearance from which inferences may be drawn," from O.Fr. evidence , from L.L. evidentia "proof," originally "distinction, clearness," from L. evidentem (see "evident"). Meaning "ground for belief" is from late 14c., that of "obviousness" is 1660s. Legal senses are from c.1500, when it began to oust witness . As a verb, from c.1600."
It comes from the Latin word "evidentem" (evident), which means:
"perceptible, clear, obvious, apparent" from ex- "fully, out of" (ex) + videntem (nom. videns ), prp. of videre "to see" (vision)."
Here, then, is the evidence I was given to support my assertion that death is NOT the end of all conscious life. It started with something I heard. At the time (approximately 17-18 years ago), someone was is great distress over what happens after death. Their main concern was the possible "suffering" that one may have undergo after death. We were all posters on a predecessor site called "H2O" at the time and while I had had some exchanges with this person, many were in the same vein as with some here - not directly opposing but very skeptical. I recall that although I felt a "pinge" for this person's "fear"... I didn't dwell on it... or his fear... because I had no idea WHAT occurred and so what I might say in response. So, I left the matter alone (as I do here when I have no knowledge of a matter). At the time what occurred with me did, however, I absolutely know that I wasn't thinking about him or his situation at all. So the event was more than just enlightening... or surprising. It was utterly profound.
Because my Lord came to me and said he had something to show ME... something that I "must" share with this individual. As you can guess, I wasn't looking forward to either part... because, again, I was necessarily endeared to this person. So, my first reaction was one of reluctance: I didn't want to have to tell him something "I knew" he wouldn't want to know and certainly not from me. Well, it didn't matter - I was shown the following and afterward had absolutely NO reservations in sharing it with him.
It was this:
I was taken by my Lord to a place... a very dark place, at first... where I appeared to be standing outside of a very large plate glass window looking in on "something." I could see what it was because of the darkness. As I stood, however, the scene became lighter, clearer. At some point what I was seeing appeared to me to be "the color of dirt." Everything was this "dusty" color... literally, the color of dry dirt. Brown/gray. Eventually, though, I could see that I was "someplace"... deep in the earth... VERY deep... somewhere between 3-6 miles deep. And then before me came into view... tunnels. GREAT tunnels, as high as cathedral ceilings... and going back... deep, deep back... for... miles.
At first, I could see only the tunnels, because of their height. As my vision became clearer, though, I could see that there were "things"... the same color as the dirt/dust and tunnels... IN the tunnels. Lots of "things". So many, they were piled up almost to the ceiling of the tunnels... and went back into the deepest part of the tunnels. And as my vision cleared more I could that what I was looking at... were bones. Piles... and piles... and piles... of bones. Skeletons. Gazillions of them. Piled high... and deep. At that point my Lord took my hand... and we stepped "inside"... to the other side of that "window"... into the place where all of these bones were. And while I had no problem breathing (because I wasn't, physically - had I been I am sure I would have smothered, given where I was, the amount of dust, and the "aroma" - I am VERY claustrophobic!)
And it was then that I noticed those bones... all... "looking" at me. Every one of them. I saw them looking at me, and they knew I was looking at them. Neither was afraid, though. I was just... interested - I had no feeling of fear at all. And I "discerned" that they were just... curious... about something. Me... but more importantly, the One who had brought me there.
It was at this time that I "discerned" what occurred next:
Prior to our arriving there, all of those bones had been asleep. There was no fire or torture or torment in this place, just quiet, peace, dirt... and those bones. When we (my Lord and I) stepped through to their side, though, those bones... all of them... "woke up." What was even more interesting was that that was ALL they did - woke up. They did not GET up. But they woke up for a reason: in unison, all of them woke up and, mustering all of the "life" they had in them (which was not much, only enough to wake up and do what occurred next)... asked, "Is this it?"
And it was with that "question" that I came to understand where I was: in Sheol/Hades - the World of the Dead.
I still did not know WHY I was there, however. Even so, just as quickly as these woke up and asked that one question, they immediately returned to sleep... and then I understood:
These, the dead... weren't conscious of anything. At all. They were suffering, tortured, in pain, agony... nothing. They were merely sleeping. In such a DEEP sleep... that they had no knowledge of anything. At all. Anywhere. And the ONLY reason they had woken just that tiny bit... was because (1) that was all of the LIFE they had IN them - just enough to wake up and ask the question; which they could do because (2) the LIFE... had come among them. HIS presence (not mine)... has awoken them. And that was why they asked the question: "Is this it?"
The thing is, they didn't even have enough life in them to know what "IT" was! They only knew that they were waiting for "something" and, on waking, wondered if that "something" had arrived, its time had come. They immediately realized that whatever "it" was MY presence there wasn't "it"... and fell back into their deep, deep sleep.
Once they did, however, I immediately "felt" that they were not the only ones... that there were others in some other "place." At that point, I remembered the place that is called "under the altar"... and I knew the missing ones were there. I also realized that I was not the first to have been taken to view them, that others had been, as well, and that each time these woke up and asked that same question ("Is this it?")... and then returned to sleep upon understanding that it was not.
We (my Lord and I) then stepped back OUT... the scene returned to its darkness (slightly quicker than it had gone from dark to light)... and the event was ended. At that point, my Lord left me, but I knew what I had to do and why: share this vision with the one I mentioned earlier because that one was AFRAID of what occurs after death and I had been taken... literally... to the World of the Dead so that I could TELL him what occurred and ease his mind and heart. And what occurs.. is nothing. Absolutely nothing... except sleep.
Those people... those whose bones... were in that place weren't burning, or screaming, or suffering, or anything like that. Nor were they wandering about... or wondering as to what occurs here. They had no hand in what occurs here. They had absolutely NO knowledge of what occurs here. Because they didn't have enough LIFE... IN them... to do anything BUT sleep... except when my Lord, the Life, arrived among them. Then, they had just ENOUGH life to wake up... and ask a brief question. That's it, that's all. Once they knew the answer... they returned to sleep. Because they didn't have enough LIFE in them to do anything else.
And that is what I shared with that dear one.
Why am I sharing it with you? Well, because of your question, yes, but also because it was my EVIDENCE as to what occurs with the dead: that which I personally perceived... clearly, apparently, and obviously... as to what occurs. I perceived it such because I was THERE. I HEARD my Lord invite me, I FELT him take my hand and lead me (in AND out), I SAW the place... and all that was in it (the dirt, tunnels, bones... them looking at me!)... and I could SMELL, as well as TASTE... the "odor" of the dead (if you think the dead have no odor, you haven't spent enough time in a mausoleum/columbarium).
Every one of my senses perceived and experienced this event... so that there is NO WAY I can deny it. And I was not dreaming - I wasn't even asleep at the time. It wasn't even nighttime (not that one can't sleep during the day). But I remember where I was (in my kitchen washing dishes), when the event started... and where I was when it ended (sitting on a chair by my front door dish towel still in my hand). My dishes were done and the kitchen cleaned during this event, but I don't recall cleaning it. Because "I" wasn't there - my body was, though.
Please note, I am not sharing this so that you will believe it - it does not matter to me whether you do or don't, truly. I am sharing it with you to try and help others here who might not yet be able to understand what some of us mean by "evidence." I would wager that most here cannot, would not, deny something they saw, heard, felt, smelled, and tasted themselves... except perhaps due to fear of man (what others might think of it, if they did not experience such themselves). If there was no such FEAR, however, I have no doubt that, having had a similar experience... given such EVIDENCE... such ones would openly share it, too.
Many deny what is actually real to them... because they don't want to be perceive as insane, crazy, unstable, "mentally diseased" by others. Unfortunately, this is the underlying reason for the lack of TRUTH in the world: fear of MAN, what MAN says/thinks about you. It is the reason for religion... and the entire "herd" mentally that goes with that.
I have no such fear... and I am not afraid to state the truth. Regardless of what others may think/say about me. Given the very campaign to stamp OUT truth that most of us experienced as part of the WTBTS, however... I pity those, though, who still don't have that courage. To speak the TRUTH... and shame the Devil... rather than cover up the truth, to their ultimate own shame before God.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
FFS!
