TEC Documentary hypothesis (page 10)

tec

The issue with the evidence thread is internal, personal validation is not acceptable evidence....for a skeptic. It's re-purposing of a word and is of no value in logical discourse.

Then a skeptic need not accept it. There are those who did not agree and perhaps wish i would be silent, and there are those who are glad I gave my testimony... which is the point of sharing such things... to share one's joy and give support and to help build up the body of Christ.

I was careful to look up what the word, evidence, actually means before writing that thread. It does not only mean 'proof'. I was also careful to include the different kinds of evidence I was referring to, as well as note that none of what I wrote consitutes proof that I can give to another person.

That message from the Lord, which you humbly served as intermediary, included a threat for those who would not listen. No way for outsiders to confirm its veracity.

The book of Revelation is already out there, as well as the vision and warning within. (warning are not given to threaten people... but rather given in the hopes that they avoid something that will cause them or others harm) I was just able to receive a detail on the 'how' of something from this already stated/written revelation. No more than that. I mean, the wts version of revelation is that all who are not jws, regardless of whether they are peaceful people or not, get destroyed at Armageddon. There are other similar views, if one is not a christian, they are destroyed at Armageddon by God, and thrown into hell, etc. But that is a lie about God, and it is not from love.

It is only those who seek out to destroy/kill a people doing them no harm, that are consumed by fire in that war. There were people who found that understanding to be comforting as well. That God isn't out to kill children and people who simply have not heard of him, or people who show love and are good to others, but who happen not to be christian.

I realize some took it as some sort of threat. That totally took me aback... though I can understand how any talk about Armageddon can be a sore spot among people who were taught to fear it from childhood, and that they would be targeted by it, just for not being a jw in good standing. I was not brought up religiously, but I still had an understanding of heaven and hell existing. So the thought of Armageddon was nothing compared to that.

Peace,

tammy

still thinking

Some love their literal mothers and fathers more than Christ as well...tec

We should love real people MORE than an imaginary creature. If we don't, that is when faith and belief CAN become dangerous. That is what cults and MOST religions thrive on.

cofty

Indeed that is a major red flag to all former cult members.

PSacramento

It is important to understand that the whole notion of taking ALL the bible as literal and concrete is a very "modern" thing based on the fundamentalist view point.

That was not the case with the early history of the church or even the reformation.

Sure some did, but others didn't.

The issue of loving Christ more than your parents is kind of complex one BUT, IMO, is ade clear in regards to the context of the whole message:

CHrist's followers ( apostles and their soon to be follwers) would be betrayed and persecuted ( to varying degrees), family, inculding parents, would turn on them. Christ was showing that to love unrighteousness is not correct BUT itis important to understand that he was NOT turning people against their familes, their familes would be the ones to turn of them and, in the jewish context of how family was viewed, I don't think we can view that Christ was saying to not have any love what so ever for parents, but to recognize that if someone does wrong, even a parent, we must not accept that.

IMO of course.

jgnat

The WTS uses this "be warned that family and loved-ones will be opposed" on the second day of the study. When family does express concern, the recruit goes "Aha! they were right! They really must have the truth!" There have been a few books I have put aside and read no futher, as soon as they use the "be prepared for persecution" card.

Albert Schweitzer in his study of the life of Jesus, pointed out that Jesus prophesied persecution for his followers when they went out preaching. It didn't happen that first time. First failed prophecy. Jesus may certainly have been expecting it, knowing the ancient prophecies regarding the coming messiah. Schweitzer suggested Jesus had got himself in a prophetical hole and his only way out was to antagonize his opponents and sacrifice himself.

PSacramento

Albert Schweitzer in his study of the life of Jesus, pointed out that Jesus prophesied persecution for his followers when they went out preaching. It didn't happen that first time. First failed prophecy. Jesus may certainly have been expecting it, knowing the ancient prophecies regarding the coming messiah. Schweitzer suggested Jesus had got himself in a prophetical hole and his only way out was to antagonize his opponents and sacrifice himself.

I don't think there is anything in the passage ( I assume you mean Matthew 10) that makes it explicit that those things would happen to them at that time.

No sure why He interpreted that way.

Luke 10 parallels Matt 10 and adds the happy results.

tec

Persecution in and of itself is not a sign that one is following or witnessing to Christ.

What prophecy is this that Schweitzer suggests for the first time that Christ sent His followers out preaching? The only thing that I can see is that he took the warning meant for later times and lumped it together with the direction Christ gives his disciples about going out among wolves, and to be wary, on their first run. But He only says IF some town does not welcome you, then shake the dust off your sandals. The rest is made clear from Mark (and also Luke) that it is in regard to later times. Now, whether they received any persecution on their first run does not seem to be mentioned one way or the other. So just curious about this man's statement of a failed prophecy.

Peace,

tammy