mP...I have to say that you are making some very thought provoking points on this thread. It is making for enjoyable reading. Thanks.
TEC Documentary hypothesis
by mP 302 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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still thinking
Or is this world so jaded that it is just something to tear down and find fault with? ..tec
Is not agreeing with every half baked belief being jaded and tearing it down? Surely, if a belief has REAL value. It cannot be torn down.
If there was no fault to be found...it wouldn't be so easy to find it.
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mP
TEC:
What is exactlyis there to be impressed with ? WIth all the evil in the world at those times, the most important social topic he can commentary on after the kingdom and loving his father is to pay tax.and be an obedient slave ? WTF is going on here ?
mP looks for and focuses on anything he thinks is bad... to the point of ignoring anything that would show the opposite. This is not the first conversation that he and I have had.
mP:
You have never addressed the issue. You will say anything, excuses, historical background anything but actually address the issue. We dont need a history lesson, but it would be nice to actually direct your answer to the matter at hand, in a truthful honest way. Personally i think that dodging the point yet again is down right dishonest and you should be shamed of yourself.
I try and always answer anything anyone asks of me, especially if they remind me more than once.
I guess if you fail to address this in anyway theres only one conclusion to be made. Jesus didnt care or he wasnt kind or good but a stooge of the Romans.
So for the last time ...
You are again diverting attention from the fact, why Jesus spends so much time focusing on people paying tax and never has a word for pedophiles, slaves or women.
What is wrong with his priorities ? Is he blind to the hell of those people for 2000 years and is worred about the tax revenue of the governments ?
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mP
TEC
Of course not. Because he did not. As I have stated in this thread. Some laws were simply social laws, and some given due to the 'hard-heartedness of the people' as situations arose that needed a law. (perhaps even given due to the hard-heartedness of the leaders or those transcribing the laws... jeremiah 8:8)
mP:
Yes we ALL know some laws are social and others religious customs. However given they completely fail to help do the right thing like free slaves, punish rape, ban pedophilia does this not show the whole thing was made up by rich men as i previously mentioned ?
How could anyone make a blind sweeping statement and say the law of Moses is perfect when its quite obvious it is not. Its cruel and its pathetic. When Jesus said it was perfect, and he didnt believe so, then he was evil. He should have helped humanity especially the slaves and women and kids and corrected it. There is no way a kind father figure would write down such selfish cruelties, i think that is self evident. Knowing its not perfect or good he should have said so, its that simple.
If Jesus could not correct the law, then he was just another Jewish man like everybody else back then. Nothing new, nothing better, we had to wait until the 1800s for England to use her might and stop the slave trade. How exactly do you explain that men in the English parliament banned slavery, but Jesus couldnt figure it was evil ? Please dont give that lame exucse everybody had slaves back then, if God can or wants idols banned, he can tell his people to ban slavery, pedophilia etc as well. If he cant he is a wast eof space.
WHy does he waste multiple parables about paying tax but forgets to make these corrections ?
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mP
TEC:
Put that another way.
The deterrent for raping a virgin is that you have to pay a fine, or that you have to take her as wife and provide for her for the rest of her life. Yes, it is a monetary punishment. But it is still a punishement. You do not get a punishment if you have not done something that is wrong.
mP:
How can any woman say that is a perfect law ? Why have ordinary people today in our home countries created better laws like actually looking these men up and yet Jesus says paying a fine is perfect. Basically if your rich you can rape to your hearts content. Thats really sad...
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mP
mP; No where in the Bible is a man stoned for adultery, but the women somehow alawys get the blame and are often stoned of course.
TEC:
A man committing adultery with another man's wife IS to be put to death along with her. Since men could have multiple wives, if he sleeps with an unmarried woman (virgin), then he has to take her to wife or pay a fine. He has to answer to whomever she belongs to.
mP:
You failed to read my question. I will repeat it to help clarify, I asked where in the Bible is there a male character stoned for adultery. I can give dozens of examples.
With Jesus we have the women caught in adultery and about to be stoned. Where is the man ? This further emphasizes that in practical terms the men never got in trouble and it was always the woman.
Show me a scripture where the male gets stonned, name and quote it here please. By not including any story or account in such a case, God in his book the Bible is focusing that women are always to blame and at fault. We see the same thing in Saudi Arabia, its nearly always the woman who gets into serious trouble.
THe law is not only about whats written its about whats applied. The history in the bible shows that in practical terms, only women get stonned. If a common observer reads the bible and sees these examples they will of course think the same which is why in Jesus time they only want to stone the woman. Its that simple. The same happens in places like Saudi arabia. Monkey see monkey do, they repeat the stories in the Bible or Koran. Considering no man ever gets stonned they thus never stone any man today.
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mP
TEC:
A lot of pedophiles DO see something wrong in their actions. They just cannot control their urges in most cases (as far as we understand... we need to do studies and understand more). In any case... love does NO harm to another person. So use that as your measure if you must.
mP:
You just admitted a LOT DONT see the error of their ways, and that shows how such a simplification is flawed. Not quite love may involve harm, its wrong to say that. There are lots of cases where one wants to end the life a child or partner because they are in pain or in a vegatable state. Its because they love that they pull the plug and so on.
I have known people who put their pets to sleep because of cancer, its harm but its love because the poor dog is in pain.
Your thiniing is again broken. I will repeat this is why details are important. Words like love mean different things to different people.
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tec
Yeah, you said he didn't condone the entire law, but he actually did. Are you saying he didn't mean it, didn't say it or just that you know know he said it but didn't mean it?
You did notice how He would correct things that the people thought, yes? "You have heard it said... but I tell you now... etc" The lying pen of the scribes has handled the law falsely. Jeremiah 8:8.
The entire law and prophets is summed up in the golden rule, and stems from love. Mercy being more important than following the letter of the law as written. If someone thought otherwise, then THEY did not understand the law, or love, or God.
You just said you don't judge and now you are saying you do. Is it any wonder why people don't trust what you say?
Everyone makes judgment calls. That is not the same as passing judgment on someone. One can call a spade a spade. One cannot condemn a spade for any reason. Unless one wishes to be condemned for being a similar spade, themselves.
Wait, you are suggesting that I am NOT honest because you are guessing at what I might do if I agreed with you? the very reason I AM on his side of the aisle is because of all the holes.
I am a) countering your continued pestering and judgment of me; and b) suggesting that you do allow your bias to blind you to the holes on 'that side', while focusing on what you see as holes on 'this side'. I have seen you in debates, EP. Many of them. Even had one or two with you. You would not let the holes in mP's reasoning go unstated if you were not so focused on finding fault on 'this side' no matter whether it is honest or not.
Please, please please please do NOT attempt to smear me with questions of integrity and honesty based on your judgement
Then stop attempting to do it to me.
Peace,
tammy
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tec
Is not agreeing with every half baked belief being jaded and tearing it down?
No.
Surely, if a belief has REAL value. It cannot be torn down.
Not to those who know better, true.
If there was no fault to be found...it wouldn't be so easy to find it.
Ever heard of witchhunts, slandering, libel, back-room gossiping... all of these things are lies that ruin the reputations and lives of people who were innocent? Those who want to believe those lies - for whatever reason - will find fault even with the most innocent of people. I'm sure many people here have seen enough examples of this in real life, just among the wts.
Peace,
tammy
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tec
You are again diverting attention from the fact, why Jesus spends so much time focusing on people paying tax and never has a word for pedophiles, slaves or women.
I did not realize this was a question. He does no such thing, and if you listened to him instead of looking back and focusing on the law (that could not save, that was written for the lawless, whereas in the new covenant, the law - of love - is written upon hearts and consciences)... perhaps if you asked for the Spirit of truth to help you see... then you would see that he addresses these issues. He came to FREE people. He treated women as equal, and had female disciples. He hurt no woman, took no slave, taught that we are to love one another as He loves us, BLESSED the children, and taught that we are to cause no harm to another person.
His entire teaching was on the kingdom, love, mercy, faith, forgivness. In word AND in deed.
He speaks of taxes what... once or twice? Both times I think he was asked specifically about them, and incorporated his words into a lesson for his disciples about... faith and God, and being no part of this world.
What is wrong with his priorities ? Is he blind to the hell of those people for 2000 years and is worred about the tax revenue of the governments ?
It would seem to me that nothing is wrong with his priorities.
peace,
tammy