TEC Documentary hypothesis

by mP 302 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tec
    tec

    How could anyone make a blind sweeping statement and say the law of Moses is perfect when its quite obvious it is not.

    Where is this statment: "the law of moses is perfect"?

    Christ, Himself, stated that some laws (such as the one on divorce) were given -by moses - due to the hard-heartedness of the people.

    What does the above mean to you? What does it say to you? You keep avoiding that question.

    How can any woman say that is a perfect law ?

    Can't. Don't recall saying it was a perfect law. Do recall saying that it was more of a 'damage control' law. Given to men who abused it. The law is for the lawless.

    Why have ordinary people today in our home countries created better laws like actually looking these men up and yet Jesus says paying a fine is perfect.

    Where did He say this again?

    Basically if your rich you can rape to your hearts content. Thats really sad...

    IF that happened (and you are stating only conjecture here)... then it is a man abusing the law (twisting it to his own ends)... and I expect that eventually, someones father or brother or uncle is going to put an end to that man.

    You failed to read my question. I will repeat it to help clarify, I asked where in the Bible is there a male character stoned for adultery. I can give dozens of examples.

    There is no such place that I can recall.

    With Jesus we have the women caught in adultery and about to be stoned. Where is the man ? This further emphasizes that in practical terms the men never got in trouble and it was always the woman.

    And is this the fault of the law... or of the men meant to uphold the law? Just curious as to your perspective on that.

    If you recall... Christ told the men about to stone the woman 'he who is without sin cast the first stone'. He taught them the meaning of the law: to look to oneself, not to condemn others. He also taught the importance of the law... which is mercy. Shown when He forgave the woman and sent her on her way.

    By not including any story or account in such a case, God in his book the Bible is focusing that women are always to blame and at fault.

    A couple of errors here.

    First, that there is no story does not mean that it never happened.

    Second, that it never happened, places the fault on those meant to uphold the law, and not upon the law, itself.

    Third, it shows the focus of the men who write the accounts in the bible. Nothing more than that. If you want to know what God focuses upon, then look to His Son. Who loved, taught truth, forgave, healed, and set FREE.

    Monkey see monkey do

    Yes. EXACTLY. One reason why Christ came. Which is why I cannot understand why you focus upon what was written about, instead of what was shown by CHRIST. Because the example that HE set was NOT to stone the adulteress. It was to show love, forgivness, mercy. To set people FREE. Not to enslave. Not to condemn.

    To serve as He served.

    To love as He loved.

    To forgive... as He forgave.

    To set free... as He set free.

    To show mercy... as HE showed mercy.

    Monkey see, monkey do... indeed. If only people would actually understand this. Nothing else is needed. Not looking back at the law... which saved no one... and was not understood by so many, including the scribes who penned it. Not man... who can save no one.

    Just Christ... who came to lead the captives free, and teach the truth, and give Life.

    So simple.

    Peace,

    tammiy

  • mP
    mP

    TEC: I did not realize this was a question. He does no such thing, and if you listened to him instead of looking back and focusing on the law (that could not save, that was written for the lawless, whereas in the new covenant, the law - of love - is written upon hearts and consciences)... perhaps if you asked for the Spirit of truth to help you see... then you would see that he addresses these issues. He came to FREE people. He treated women as equal, and had female disciples. He hurt no woman, took no slave, taught that we are to love one another as He loves us, BLESSED the children, and taught that we are to cause no harm to another person.

    His entire teaching was on the kingdom, love, mercy, faith, forgivness. In word AND in deed.

    He speaks of taxes what... once or twice? Both times I think he was asked specifically about them, and incorporated his words into a lesson for his disciples about... faith and God, and being no part of this world.

    mP: What is wrong with his priorities ? Is he blind to the hell of those people for 2000 years and is worred about the tax revenue of the governments ?

    TEC: It would seem to me that nothing is wrong with his priorities.

    mP:

    I noticed in your answer, you failed to quote or even mention a single scripture. Actually the gospels mention jesus tax directions more than twice, its closer to a dozen.

    I will accept your "twice" count jus tto move along, but why is he telling people "twice" to pay taxes and never telling masters to free slaves ?
    Pedophiilia was not hidden for lack of a better word in ancient Rome, its was as common as slavery. They didnt hide it because it was considered normal back then.

    Again why cant jesus make a statement against slavery, pedophilia or treatment of women once ? The simple answer is he didnt see anything wrong with them. Its that simple, he was no different from his fellow jewish men.

    Of course if im wrong please give a quote instead of telling me about your thoughts.

    SHOW ME A SCRIPTURE WITH QUOTES WHERE JESUS CONDEMNS RAPE, PEDOPHILIA OR SLAVERY.

  • mP
    mP

    TEC:

    Can't. Don't recall saying it was a perfect law.

    mP: Matt 5:17-19. We have been over this before. You claimed that time, that perfect didnt mean perfect.

  • mP
    mP

    mP: Monkey see monkey do

    TEC:

    Yes. EXACTLY. One reason why Christ came. Which is why I cannot understand why you focus upon what was written about, instead of what was shown by CHRIST. Because the example that HE set was NOT to stone the adulteress. It was to show love, forgivness, mercy. To set people FREE. Not to enslave. Not to condemn.

    To serve as He served.

    To love as He loved.

    To forgive... as He forgave.

    To set free... as He set free.

    To show mercy... as HE showed mercy.

    Monkey see, monkey do... indeed. If only people would actually understand this. Nothing else is needed. Not looking back at the law... which saved no one... and was not understood by so many, including the scribes who penned it. Not man... who can save no one.

    Just Christ... who came to lead the captives free, and teach the truth, and give Life.

    So simple.

    mP:

    For 1850 years we had slaves in Christian Europe because Jesus didnt make a clear statement. Today we have slavery in ALL chrsitian religion because Jesus didnt say a word AGAINST pedophilia.

    When you leave loopholes like that, evil men take advantage them. Thats why religion is always behind and society which is not religious is first. Today society has banned pedophilia and tries to fight it, and the last places trying to hide pedophiles is religion of course.

    You might want to read your history books of who actually abolished slavery and who were against it. The churches were aginst slavery and they quoted the BIBLE and JESUS. Thats right all thsoe good christian leaders in the American SOuth, went to church every Sunday and were fighting the godless North.

    This demonstrates that Jesus didnt know how the world worked. By failing to make a simple statement against slavery, rape, and pedophilia he shows he could read the hearts of man. He was too dumb to know these would be major problems and pain for 2000 years. The other half is of course he didnt care.

    You can make up your admiring claims thats yoru choice but it doesnt change the fact you cant produce a sciprture that says exactly what im after. Instead you must make stuff up.

  • mP
    mP

    TEC:

    To serve as He served.

    To love as He loved.

    To forgive... as He forgave.

    To set free... as He set free.

    To show mercy... as HE showed mercy.

    mP:

    THis is bogus, if Jesus and God didnt punish us with the debt of Adam we wouldnt need any saving. Imagine a bank repeated this nonsense today, and assigned you a debt for someone on the other side of the country and then in their kindness cancelled half the debt. Thats utter bullshit.

    Who exactly did he show mercy too ? He certainly didnt care about the poor barstard slaves.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Ever heard of witchhunts, slandering, libel, back-room gossiping... all of these things are lies that ruin the reputations and lives of people who were innocent? Those who want to believe those lies - for whatever reason - will find fault even with the most innocent of people. I'm sure many people here have seen enough examples of this in real life, just among the wts...tec

    Yes I've heard of witchhunts...they were conducted by some of the faithful followers of the Jesus myth.

    Yes...the WTS does behave like that...another example of belief and faith and religion.

    What has any of that got to do with what I SAID?

    The bible god and Jesus don't stand up to scrutiny. It isn't back room gossip. It is out in the open discussion.

    The Jesus myth is about as riveting as any other myth. And it is NOT gossip to talk about it. Just because some people are obsessed with myths and believe they are true does not make it so or that someone who they can't prove even exists is being slandered.

    When you can supply absolute proof that anything that is written in the bible is worth more than any other religious belief or myth, you can lay claim to Jesus being misunderstood and slandered. Until then, it is just your opinion vs someone elses opinion about a myth.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    You did notice how He would correct things that the people thought, yes? "You have heard it said... but I tell you now... etc" The lying pen of the scribes has handled the law falsely. Jeremiah 8:8.

    So tell me which part of the law regarding rape and slavery he condemend? And don't make stuff up, just use the text.

    Everyone makes judgment calls.

    So, depsite your protests, you do judge. You may want to make a distinction without a difference, but you DO judge things and people. At last we finally have the truth, even though you tried to say judging wasn't judging because you somehow do the nice kind.

    I am a) countering your continued pestering and judgment of meand b) suggesting that you do allow your bias to blind you to the holes on 'that side', while focusing on what you see as holes on 'this side'.

    You are making stuff up about what you think I might do to justify calling me dishonest.

    Then stop attempting to do it to me.

    I didn't attempt anything. I simply point out what you say. OTOH, you had to make something up to call me dishonest, ironically.

  • mP
    mP

    TEC:

    Why are you distracting attention from the real question and trying to cry and pretend that everybody is picking on you ? Where are the scriptures to back your assertions ? Is it honest to make claim and tell stories but when it comes to showing a single scripture you fail on all accounts ?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    SHOW ME A SCRIPTURE WITH QUOTES WHERE JESUS CONDEMNS RAPE, PEDOPHILIA OR SLAVERY.

    There is no explicit or direct condemnation of MANY things, things that are covered quite logically in this/these commandment(s):

    Love your neighbour as yourself ( to be parallelled with the Good Samaritan prabale to make clear who is our neighbour).

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘ You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    IT is pretty hard to take those an feel that somehow rape, pedophila and slavery are permitted.

    THAT said, it is clear that those things went on and still do go on.

    Slavery was a far more complex issue since the whoel of the Roman empire ( and before that) was based on a "slave" economy and to openly preach that slavery was wrong would be viewed as inciting rebellion and we all know how well that works in the Roman empire.

    It is clear, IMO, that of the laws given many were casual laws and many,perhaos most, were accomodationalist and Christ's commandements seem to be no different.

    In short, He knew who he was dealing with.

  • mP
    mP

    PSac:

    IT is pretty hard to take those an feel that somehow rape, pedophila and slavery are permitted.

    mP:

    Levicitus 19:18 says exactly the same thing in th Torah and yet slavery and rape of virgins were permitted and sanctioned by the law.

    In his commentary to the Torah verse (Hebrew: "????? ???? ????" ca.1300 BCE):

    You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. —Leviticus 19:18 [10] , the "Great Commandment"

    The problem is you fail to see the hidden cultural qualifications that are embedded in Jesus and the statement in Lev. In both cases neighbour means jewish male. If you read it that way then my statements all make sense.

    We can see the fights between Paul and Peter that the later felt that Jesus only came for the jews which is exctly what he said. Mat 24:14 is of course a contradiction against the many times that Jesus said he came only for jews. Surely we must go with the opinion that Jesus repeated the most ?

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