A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

by Change Name 138 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    ****You have it all wrong, Russell did not expect the end times to START in 1914, he expected them to END. He thought Armageddon was to be in 1914****

    @ChangeName

    As mentioned correctly by Lisa Rose above, you don't seem to have the facts about the WBTS's history, and it's ever changing escathology which is their foundation for their authority. You are at best misguided as they rewrite and change their dogmatic claims, and at worse your in denial. Can we help you see the truth ? that the WBTS at best can only be yet another denomination from the Adventist movement, or at worse a unrepentant false prophet !

    Shalom

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Maybe this thread topic would have been better entitled " A question about the hypocrisy of the Jehovah's Witness organization ".

    The OP by Changed Name goes on about the supposed lying of the organization when in reality the discussion really is about hypocrisy

    contained and expressed by this organization on various points of observations.

    I think it should be realized that Changed Name is a newly indoctrinated JWS , which may be the reason why he is apparently vague

    about the many past professed doctrines of this organization.

    I'd also like to openly ask Changed Name were you ever a member of this forum (JWN) under a different user name ?

    Please be honest. There are rumors going around.

  • TD
    TD
    Russell thought that the gentile times would end in 1914 and that the end times would start in the same year.

    Russell believed and taught that the "Time of the End" began in 1799 when the Pope was deposed from the Papal states. This was taught up until 1927

    Russell believed and taught that the Parousia commenced in 1874. This was taught up until 1932

    Russell believed and taught that Christ received kingly power to rule in 1878. This was taught up until 1925

    Russell believed and taught that 1914 was the end point of a 40 year long "Time of Trouble" and harvest work starting in 1874. 1914 was the farthest point of the rule of imperfect men and the point when Christ's reign actively began on earth.

    The only chronological element retained today from the Russell era is the belief that the Gentile Times ended in 1914 and the significance of that event has been changed entirely

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    EVIDENTLY, truth does not " ORIGINATE " from a mistake made from men

    no matter who they are or what they may believe____Wasblind

    Oops. New light. I need to make an " Adjustment "

    Evidently, truth does not " EVOLVE " into a falsehood unless

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    In a recent article from a WT the WTS. blandly lied about what the WTS. organization taught through its literature prior to 1914. !!!

    Was this intentionally done so because they are now aware that the WTS. teachings/doctrines are openly available for all to see on the inter-net ?

    It should be accepted that the WTS. and its leaders have an inherent agenda to uphold, which entails the purposed proclamation that god has chosen

    them and them alone to reveal bible truths and knowledge for all mankind.

    That being so I guess acting like the lying and deceiving devil might become useful from time to time.

  • Dismissing servant
    Dismissing servant

    But..anyhow..we have to be a bit understanding towards "Change Name" I haden't the slightest idea av 1799, 1874 and 1878 when I was active. And I did believe that Russel claimed that the end of the gentile times were in 1914......I was really surprized when I discorvered what russel really wrote I was even more surprized when I learned that the return of Christ was 1874 as a doctrine till the 1930's. I think that 99,9% ov all active JW's don't know about this.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    the return of Christ was 1874 as a doctrine till the 1930's. I think that 99,9% ov all active JW's don't know about this.

    I sure never did, and I was one who took JW doctrine seriously from youth on up. I read everything I could get my hands on, including their Proclaimers history book - and I never knew that in the 1930's they replaced the 1874 date with 1914 as the "beginning" of the end times. How convenient, for them.

  • Tater-T
  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Hello Change name,

    Sorry i missed out on all of the fun so far. Let me attempt a short redux that may funnel these points. Because we are all arguing over semantics. First, it would help if you come clean that you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses, instead of pretending you are not. We won't judge you for being here despite that. I myself as a JW apologist for quite some time. Probably argued with some here even at one point. That was several years ago. I believe I even argued this exact point. So just a few things to consider to boil this down.

    1) Would I lie if I was hiding a brother in my home, and someone was coming to get him (ie: Rawanda).....you bet. Would I think less of anyone doing the same? Nope. In my mind the sin of lying woud be trumped by the sin of aiding in the murder of my fellowman. I think most here would agree. So essentially, we are saying there is a time it is ok to lie.

    2) "Every lie is an untruth, but not every untruth is a lie". This is a direct quote noted earlier. So this to me is very clear. Allowing or even fostering deception is ok, when it is against those deemed in "opposition" to their work. I have been one of JW's my entire life. I NATURALLY hid cetain things we believe or aspects of our history. The video you see, has elders dancing around the fact there is a book that while technically is not a secret, is not made available for anyone other than an elder to see. So it is a semantic arguement ove rthe difference between "confidential" and "secret".

    Think about this for a second. The society is saying that when it comes to preaching or dealing with those opposing you, untruths are all good. You can withold information (ommision is not looked favorably in a court of law), and you are still just fine because of the REASON you do it. So if not outright lying, can we at least agree it is at best disingenuous and not true to the spirit of the bibles command to not have a "false tongue"?

    P.S. - Your comment regarding those who leave the organization not caring about their families is offensive. It is offensive on many levels and you should apologize for it. The ACTUAL POLICY of the religion I have been and am still a part of for my entire 30+ years on this earth, is that is you vocalize distrust in the Governing Body or their appointment by God (despite they claim no inspiration from God), is that you are to be disfellowshipped and your friends and family cannot speak to you under threat of them too being disfellowshipped. The policy breaking up families is one sided. If someone even just changes their mind, says nothing, moves on with their lives and continues to lead a moral and giving life.......it is very likely they will still be unofficially shunned by friends and loved ones because they are taught it is what jehovah wants them to do.

    You should apologize. Perhaps ignorance caused you to mispeak?

  • Dismissing servant
    Dismissing servant

    Hey Gopher! We have a lot to relearn. The gentile times ended in 1799 according to Russel, it was Chists presence that started in 1874! All theese years are a little bit tricky. We have to give "Change Name" a little time to relearn! It took me a lot of years, but when I faded I had no no access to the internet.

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