A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

by Change Name 138 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Dismissing servant

  This is very important:

  "Did the 1st century Christians lie that Jesus was going to return in their lifetime. Did Jesus lie about his traveling to the festival of the tabernacles. These were untruths but were not lies. "

  Yes, the persons that made people in the first century believe that Jesus would return in their lifetime were lying. Because he didn't arrive. Even if those persons believed that it would happen , it was still very deceptive. The consequenses for those who listened to it vere drastic.

  But OK, if you don't like the word liers, you can call them fasle prophets that believed their own false prophecies.

  Of course you can make i spin of it like Rutherford did after the big failure with the "millions" campaign and the 1925 failure. He stadedsomething like "it was anyhow a blessing, because it had a stimulating effect on the members preaching activity" (not an exact quote, I know, so in a way I'm probably a lier )
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  DATA-DOG

  Here is another thing to consider. No human being has a scriptural right to take a human life, which is a gift from God. The superior authorities is another subject. So I would not tell a corrupt individual that YOU were hiding in my basement if they wanted to kill you. That is an extreme situation though. It does not justify the WTBTS practicing revisionist history, controlling information, forbidding bible study in small groups, misquoting authors when it suits them. It also does not justify lying at every DC and tellling the friends that they need money. Especially when the DC is already paid for, sometimes with the help of funds from the Host city. Lying is wrong.

  " What's that Your Honor? Child Custody packet..never heard of it!"
• 

  wasblind

  Hi there all

  I love it when people throw so many arguements at people. Maybe this is why people leave this forum. No structure, just bashing?____Change name

  LOL,

  Tsk, Tsk posters of JWN. Raise your hands and wait to be called on

  because Change Name can't read the comments in the " Order / Structure " in which they are posted

  .
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  2+2=5

  I would be interested to see Change Name take this test.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/195895/1/Thought-Control-A-simple-test-for-JWs

  It is amazing how some avoid the obvious answer to support want they have already made their mind up about.

  I tried it with my mother, she could see the contradiction but tried to downplay it. Sadly, her husband insisted there was no contradiction, he just couldn't get it. Incredible.
• 

  wasblind

  Hi again Wasblind - One thing I have noticed is that former JW's choose their beliefs over their families. ____Change Name

  LOL The WTS often qoute Matthew 10:37 in defense of folks who do exactly that

  Why did you choose your belief over that of your family ?_____Change Name

  I'm glad you ask Lets' see what the WTS thinks about that

  Is it proper to leave the religion of one's parents ?

  " If we learn that their religious pratices and beliefs are out of harmony with Gods word, would you respectfully share with them what you learned ? We must make a decision to take up true worship" ____Reasoning Book page 324

  The WTS need to take their own advice don't ya think

  Why is your beliefs better than Christianity?____Change Name

  Accordin' to the WTS Jehovah's Witnesses are the Antichrist

  Antichrist : " Means against or instead of the Christ "_____Reasoning Book page 32

  If someone says : " Christians are supposed to be witnesses for Jesus not Jehovah "

  You might reply : " But here is something that may be a new thought to you, Of whom was Jesus the faithful witness? "____Reasoning book page 208

  You see Change Name, The WTS chose to go beyond the command of the Christ in Acts 1:8

  and introduce being witnesses of another " Instead " of the Christ

  It was by divine providence the followers of Christ were to be called Christians not Jehovah's Witnesses

  This is what you are telling your family. Your beliefs are better than Christianity._____Change Name

  What you are sellin' is a lie that Jehovah's Witnesses are " Following the Christ "

  It was your choice, not your family, to leave Christianity.____Change Name

  I was not raise a Jehovah's Witness. That means I left Christianity

  when I attend the Kingdom hall. Where folks declared themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses

  rather than declarin' themselves as witnesses for Christ as commanded in Acts 1:8

  Hi again Billy -

  At one time I thought the USA was the best country in the world. I believed this with a passion. I saluted the flag, said the pledge and was proud my father and grandfather was in the service. As I grew older, I talked to people in different parts of the world who disagreed with me. They believed their country was better than mine. Was I a liar?______Change Name

  When it comes to your argument on which " Generation " lets see why the WTS was made out to be a liar

  " When will the end of this wicked world come ?

  Jesus answered : " Concerning that day and hour nobody knows .......However, he also stated: " truly I say to you that this generation [ That was alive when " the sign " of the " last days " began it's fulfillment ] will by no means pass away until all these things occur"____Reasoning book pages 97-98

  Botton line: Jesus said " Nobody Knows " Nothin'.

  But the WTS set out to make Jesus a lie by makin' claims that they did know somethin'

  .
• 

  LisaRose

  One thing I have noticed is that former JW's choose their beliefs over their families. Why did you choose your belief over that of your family? Why is your beliefs better than Christianity? This is what you are telling your family. Your beliefs are better than Christianity. It was your choice, not your family, to leave Christianity.

  I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were not an apologist, but you have proved that is indeed what you are. Your statement that those who were formerly Jehovah's Witnesses "choose their beliefs over their families" shows your bias. Am I supposed to be a Jehovah's Witness, even if I do not believe it? If I was contemplating becoming a JW, but my family was Catholic, should I then chose my family over my beliefs, according to your logic? Excuse me, your JW double standard is showing.

  You also seem to be under the delusion that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only Christian religion, which also shows you are an apologist. There are many former Jehovah's who consider themselves Christian, as I do. Although I am imperfect, I strive to apply Christian principles in my life, yet you would presume to tell me I am not Christian, based on the fact I am no longer a Jehovah's Witness. That's rich, it is actually the Governing Body that repudiates Christ's sacrifice by insisting that rigid adherence to their own man made rules is necessary for salvation. Did you see the latest org chart that puts the GB right below Jehovah? Jesus isn't even in the picture, hmmmm.... this is a Christian religion? Can't tell by looking.

  It is true that some former members are Athiest, the Watchtower is very good at creating Athiests it seems. So for them, yes, they are choosing their beliefs over Chrisianity, duh! Should they pretend to be Christian, even if they don't believe it? How absurd.
• 

  wasblind

  An invitation to the memorial of the Christ

  I fool them out of everlasting life by abstaining from the blood

  of the christ

  I shun the cross on which he bled, and refuse to partake of

  the wine and the bread

  In my quest to decieve every man, I remain unwashed by the blood

  of the lamb

  I will not witness in his name, to think I could, would be insane

  I am the Antichrist

  Come join me at your local Kingdom Hall

  .

  .
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  Gopher

  One thing I've noticed is that CURRENT JW's choose their beliefs over their families.
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  TD

  During the Sunday morning discourse, "Jehovah Hates the Course of Treachery" at the 2001 Teacher's of God's Word District Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses, the following statement was made from the platform:

  "Are we personally alert that no unrighteousness be found on our lips? For example, can our family members, including our mate really trust what we say? Can our brothers and sisters in the congregation? It would be so easy to develop the habit of couching one's words so that they are technically accurate, yet deliberately misleading to others."

  I'm curious - would "couching one's words so that they are technically accurate, yet deliberately misleading to others" include statements like the following?

  "In 1879, however, it became clear which “second coming” voice was being chosen by Jehovah to speak the pure language as his Witnesses. By then a small Bible-study group led by Charles Taze Russell was meeting in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. They had become certain that Jesus’ second coming would begin his invisible presence, that a time of world distress was ahead, and that this would be followed by the Thousand Year Reign of Christ that would restore Paradise on earth, with eternal life for obedient humans."
  (The Watchtower May 1, 1991 p. 17)

  Or this?

  "As for the time of Christ’s second presence, Daniel’s prophecy is again the one that gives the chronology for it. (Dan. 4:16) It was figured out as pointing to A.D. 1914, and The Watchtower called notice to the significance of 1914 in the year 1879."
  (The Watchtower November 1, 1952 p. 658)

  Or this?

  "The Bible also provided chronological evidence that 1914 would mark the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom, to be followed by unprecedented world trouble. But was anyone living back then aware that 1914 would be such a turning point in history? Decades before that date, there was an organization of people who were making known the significance of 1914."
  (Life - How Did It Get Here? By Evolution Or By Creation? pp. 227 & 229)

  Or this?

  "Prior to that unforgettable year the anointed Christians proclaimed the good news of God’s kingdom that was coming. Since that year God has supplied the theme of a new song. For in 1914 the heavenly Father and Source of theocratic government brought that glorious kingdom to birth by enthroning and crowning the Seed of his woman, the Heir of the covenant that was made with David for the everlasting kingdom. That was something new indeed."
  (The Watchtower April 15, 1958 p. 238)

  Or this?

  "Russell and his associates also saw that Christ’s presence was to be invisible, in spirit. The Gentile Times, during which period God’s sovereignty was not being expressed through any government on the earth, were to end in 1914. Then God’s Kingdom would be established in heaven. These teachings are identified with Jehovah’s Witnesses today. Russell and his companions announced these truths far and wide by talks and printed page."
  (Jehovah's Witnesses Unitedly Doing God's Will Worldwide 1986 p. 8)

  Or this?

  "So Jehovah’s people of the 19th century correctly understood that the pa·rou·si'a of Christ would be an invisible one. They had also come to an understanding that the end of the Gentile Times would occur in the autumn of 1914."
  (The Watchtower May 1, 1993 p. 11)

  Or perhaps it is hopelessly idealistic and naive to expect WTB&TS writers to actually practice what they preach?
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  DATA-DOG

  OH, SNAP!!!! BTT!!