How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies. (page 22)

myelaine

dear mP...

you said: "Well given the OT clearly states that Jehovah is the god of the jews and that the jews are his special people, followed by Jesus own words that he only came for the jews its pretty obvious that he was only focused on that commnity. The entire exercise was isolated to that part of the world. God has no care or interest in the lands and peoples outside that boundary"...

matthew 22:1-10...

"And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”’ But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests"

are you saying that paul had NO knowledge of the ministry of the other apostles when you say this: "Its quite evident from that passage that Paul knows nothing of the other 12, the earthly minsitry, miracles, where Jesus died and so on."...

2 timothy 4:11...

"Only Luke is with me. Get Mark and bring him with you, for he is useful to me for ministry."

love michelle

mP

MyElaine:

“ The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come .

mP:

Again your own answer and bible quotation confirms what i said. The only servants of God in the Bible are the jewish people. Its interesting that you must quote from the NT and not the OT which without doubt confirms that jehovah is only the god of hte jews.

mP

MyE

Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests"

mP:

I have no idea why you highlighted "wedding hall" filled with guests. COuldnt Jehovah simply use real names, people and places instead of speaking in parables where anybody can make up stuff ?

If God wants everyone to know it seems mighty strange he doesnt spend a bit of time making a few big announcements, but must require believers to twist and simply make stuff up. THis is an embarrassment and dishonest. The simple is the concept does not exist in the bible which is why it cant be found.

mP

mP:are you saying that paul had NO knowledge of the ministry of the other apostles when you say this: "Its quite evident from that passage that Paul knows nothing of the other 12, the earthly minsitry, miracles, where Jesus died and so on."...

MyElaine

2 timothy 4:11...
"Only Luke is with me. Get Mark and bring him with you, for he is useful to me for ministry."

MP:

Luke and Mark never met Jesus, so i have no idea why this is proof of anything. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20timothy%204:11&version=KJV Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry. This scripture is clearly talking about Pauls personal mission. It doesnt mention anything about Jesus life or mission. Can you actually show something that talks about Jesus himself or his time on earth ? How can Paul be writing so much theology and yet never mention anyting about Jesus earthly life ? Even when he visits Jerusalem he never discusses any of the places that were significant in Jesus life. He also doesnt talk to the 12 or mention that such an arrangement ever existed, and so on.

myelaine

dear mP...

yes, Jesus came to the jews first but the majority did not accept Him. Then He sent out those jewish servants of His into the highways and byways to gather others (gentiles) to the feast. john 1:11-13; matthew 22:1-10

luke and mark were trusted to record the gospel (according to acts 12:12-14 marks mother's home was a place that peter went often as her servant rhoda recognised his voice!!) THIS assumes a very close association. the fact that the disciples that walked with Jesus trusted luke and mark to write their testimony and paul trusted luke in his missonary journey and then also called for mark, would lead many to believe that these two, far from hearing and believing a different gospel, would collaborate with paul's testimony as a means to further outreach. They ALL shared in the same ministry.

love michelle

mP

@MyElaine

So why lie about prophecies about Jesus ? I noticed that you did not attempt to deny this or in anyway impress me and others with some prophecies from the OT that clearly are about Jesus ?

Why lie about the prophecies of a virgin birth and Bethlehem ? Jesus story does not change if these claims are removed. It just looks really bad that Christians have to make such poorly constructed lies. Once you have a label of lying to suit your agenda that stain follows all your other proofs and arguments.

mP

@MyElaine

I think we all know the Christian tradition of who Luke and Mark were, however that does not actually address my challenge. Just because Paul knows someone with a name does not make it a connection with Jesus. There were thosuands if not millions of Johns, James(actually Jacobs) in the past. I asked for a real quote from Paul about Jesus not just a name drop.

I know a lot of people called John that doesnt mean i Know John Lennon. The same goes for Christopher, that doesnt mean i know Christopher Columbus. Its these sort of rediculous and lousy assumptions that make CHristians look unintelligent and dishonest.

Therefore i will ask you one last time, impress me with from Pauls own writings proof that he knew Jesus. I want him to say Jesus was killed by Pilate at Passover or something like that. DOnt just drop a name like he spoke to a John or Cephas etc.

In the case of Galatians, Peter is supposed to be the name of the apostle and yet Paul doesnt know this and calls him Cephas. HOw is it that the gospel writers know him by his "new" name but Paul is unaware of this. WHy is a jew called by a Greek name when was obviously a proud Jew who wouldnt even eat with gentiles and yet abandons his Jewish identity and name. Its all nonsense.

If you reply dont tell me basic history that we all know. If you claim its all from the Bible and its direct and exact then show it.

mP

MyElaine

uke and mark were trusted to record the gospel (according to acts 12:12-14 marks mother's home was a place that peter went often as her servant rhoda recognised his voice!!) THIS assumes a very close association. t

mP:

First i will show the scripture, for everyone to read...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%2012;12&version=KJV

And when Peter was come to himself, he said, Now I know of a surety, that the Lord hath sent his angel, and hath delivered me out of the hand of Herod, and from all the expectation of the people of the Jews.

12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.

13 And as Peter knocked at the door of the gate, a damsel came to hearken, named Rhoda.

14 And when she knew Peter's voice, she opened not the gate for gladness, but ran in, and told how Peter stood before the gate.

This fails because no where does the author of the gospel attrobuted to Mark identify himself as someone named Mark, John or Mark John etc. Secondly no where does the author mention any relatiionship to any apostle. The entire connection was made up by the Roman Cathoolic Church over a hundred years after the text was written.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_mark

According to Papias of Hierapolis , writing in the early 2nd century, this gospel was by "Mark, (who) having become the interpreter of Peter, wrote down accurately, though not in order, whatsoever he remembered of the things said or done by Christ." [17] Other early writers such as Irenaeus agree with this. [18] "No early church tradition and no church father ascribes the Gospel to anyone other than Mark." [19] Some modern scholars believe that the gospel was written in Syria by an unknown Christian no earlier than AD 70, using various sources including a passion narrative (probably written), collections of miracles stories (oral or written), apocalyptic traditions (probably written), and disputations and didactic sayings (some possibly written). [7] Some of the material in Mark, however, goes back a very long way, representing an important source for historical information about Jesus. [7]

In other words, there is no proof for any of this tradition. I am really amazed that you belief anything that the Roman Catholic Church and its traditions tell us. These same people tell us that St George killed a dragon and so on.

There is absolutely no proof for the person named John Mark having authored the gospel of Mark. John was a very popular name, there were hundreds of thousnads back then. Just dropping a John or Mark is hardly a postitive means of identifying anybody.

Pathetic.

mP

You still havent shown me an example of Paul knowhing anything about Jesus from his own words. Dont tell me tradition this or Acts, show me a scripture from Pauls writings. Acts is full of contradictions its not even sure about how Paul was converted.

jhine

mp , look a few posts up you say quite clearly " when he sponsors genocide " that is where I got it from . In the parable of the wedding feast real names and places are not used because as it is refering to thousands and thousands of non Jews (who are the first invited guests) then it would quite clearly take lots of books to mention everybody by name .

YOu are not stupid , do you question why Aesop didn't name the hare and the tortoise and does that make the truths in the story any less true because we don't know that they were called Jeremy and Brian ?

You understand perfectly the concept of parables as relating to a general idea ., so why ask such nonsensical questions ? If I could give you a list of names of wedding guests would you then believe the parable ?

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

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