The perplexing conundrum 607 b.c.e condensed down to ONE SIMPLE FACT

by Brother of the Hawk 83 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    DISMISSING:

    I never/seldom agree with Larsinger...but I will defend his rights to express himself om this forum. I am a bit shamed to say that I sometimes ignore some of his posts. But, nevertheless I think it is important to be tolerant to each others in this forum.

    I myself was rude to a believer some months ago....maybe I was a bit provoked...but I learned to know thats this poster/believer is a very nice and kind person. I am still ashamed about that.

    Perheaps Larsinger is a very nice and kind person? Who knows? Who are we to judge him?

    We can disagree with him, and it's fine with that...and he can disagree with us. But let's not act like bullies.

    LARS:

    Thanks. Noted.

  • mP
    mP

    Lars:

    How do you explain so many lengths of time in the Bible are always 7, 70 or multiple of 7 ? Is that histlry or numerology ?

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    mP:

    Lars:

    How do you explain so many lengths of time in the Bible are always 7, 70 or multiple of 7 ? Is that histlry or numerology ?

    God likes doing things in patterns, but clearly there is flexibility and manipulation. For instance, the 70 years of desolation was clearly manipulated. It had to begin at a certain time coordinated with the last deportation. But the Jews left early and ran down to Egypt. so God had to intervene and bring a remnant back to be deported in year 23. It takes time to deport. Jerusalem had to be destroyed, first and then a few left in the land to be deported a certain year to conform to the pattern.

    Same with the "great tribulation" which was to see the extermination of 2/3rds of the Jews in a 7-year period from 1940-1947. But by late 1944 the two-thirds had already been reached, so the "days were cut short" so that the entire nation did not perish. So, again, you have manipulation. Even so the official end of the exile did not happen until schedled in 1947, which was the 70th jubilee from the time the Jews became a nation in Egypt. The 70 jubilees cover a period of 3430 years from 1435 BCE to 1996 AD.

    So God can manipulate and control some things so that they conform to patterns. For instance, when the new messiah would be born. I had to be tested for approximately 40 years per another pattern before being presented as acceptable as the messiah. God could have manipulated things so that I was born at the precise time for this to take place. I was born in early 1950 so that my 40th year fell in 1989, the beginning of the 70th week of the 2nd coming.

    So some of the history is manipulated and adjusted.

  • Newly Enlightened
    Newly Enlightened

    Mind Blown: Thank you for that video. WE LOVE Snarky Bill!

    Yeah. we've got Lars' figured out already bat crap crazy .

    If we can face 13 elders in our old cong. all at once facing charges of collusion, and take on a CO & DO at the SAME TIME, and come away from those UNSCATHED, so one person that has their own personal agenda and has to hijack everyone else's topics DOES NOT intimidate us.

    Besides, the TRUE Messiah is NOT RUDE and OBNOXIOUS to everyone else LARS!!!!

    Why don't you go start your own forum on another website and dont EVER post on any of our family's topics again, no one wants to hear your shit!

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    All of this is brilliant. There is so much information flying around out there. but it really important stuff.

    So for the sake of us newbiees who have 'awakened' and in confusion about things wt, jw teach ... which is all similar to what you are all saying .... everything I have learned has come from the information the jw's have provided. AND personal study to try to find these things.

    The difference between the milk, and moving onto the meat. Spiritual maturity. Growth.

    We cannot do it on our own. We must find who are the right persons to teach us.

    if God has given us this, and has said to us, this is the way, which Jesus is so clearly telling us.

    Which is also what the jw's are also saying, how are we to know which is the correct path. Yes it is narrow and cramped and uncomfortable, for we are told. We are also told there will be a great crowd.

    We need help to understand these things.

    SO PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE EVERYBODY ... don't stop from keeping the thread going, please keep adding to it. Everyone can just skip through the posts they don't want to read and move on too the next one.

    Please lets keep the conversations focused and relevant no matter what it is that you are adding, it can help. Please lets not get personal and upset each other for the sake of how important this is to a lot of us. We need help.

    Bearing in mind a lot of us are moving out of our comfort zone from what we have been conditioned to think and believe and it is really a struggle sometimes for us.

    thank you so much. I really appreciate all of the effort everybody is putting into contributing information.

    IT IS ALL RELEVENT BECAUSE IT IS ALL CONNECTED.

    lost

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Lars *** The 70 jubilees cover a period of 3430 years from 1435 BCE to 1996 AD. ******

    Hi Lars, thank you for showing the above calculations. So you agree that 7 sabbatical years 7*7 = 49 years, and the jubilee is celebrated on the 50th year for liberation of debt as specified in Leviticus 25.

    Also Leviticus 26:34-35 states that "if you do not listen to me, and do not observe each one of these commandments (v. 14)", such as those concerning the observance of sabbatical years, "I will scatter you among the nations. I will unsheathe the sword against you to make your land a waste and your towns a ruin. Then the land will observe its sabbaths indeed, lying desolate there, while you are in the land of your enemies. Then indeed the land will rest and observe its sabbaths. So on this basis 7 sabbatical years 7*7 = 49 years to payoff sabbaths, and liberation and debt paid on the 50th year

    So why can't the Chronicler at 2 Chronicles 36:21 Imply this as follows:..... ..

    21 to fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, (Jeremiah 25:12....70 years for Babylon rule) until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths.(7x7 = 49 years, jubilee on the 50th year) All the days that it lay desolate it kept sabbath, to fulfil seventy years.(for Babylon). ???????

    587/6 - 537/6 = 50 years...land laying waste ...fall of Jerusalem to Exiles coming back Matthew 1, Ezra 2...under Zerrubabel!

    607/606 Babylon rise to power to 537/536...Rise of Persian power. ...Jeremiah 25:12...70 years of Babylon's power..

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Hello Pterist.

    The issue of the 70 years being literal is not just connected with the direct historical refeence by Josephus who claims these 70 years were linked with the last deportation. The land has to be completely desolated, both northern and southern kingdoms to begin paying back its sabbaths of 70 years. This does not take place until year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar.

    But also, the sabbaths to be paid back are not just 50 years. Of note, the 50th year is also the 1st of the next 49. Thus 490 years, or 70 weeks, is consider to be 10 jubilee periods of 49 years each, with the 50th year celebrated as the first year of the next 49. The 50th year is not an isolated year.

    But the sabbaths the land is concerned with are the agricultural sabbaths, one every 7 years and the 50th year, as you noted. But this is for the period of time from the Exodus down to the return from Babylon. The years of error represent approximately half the time they were supposed to be keeping sabbaths minus the 70 years of make-up. Thus in Ezekiel we find the 10 tribes are charged 390 years, which is 39 years for each tribe. Judah ruled slightly longer, so their error is 40 years. You add the 390 and the 40 together to get 430 years. You then divide the 430 years by the two types of agri-sabbaths, the 7-year and the 50-year. When you do that, you get 70!

    Israel = 390 years; Judah = 40 years of error.

    390 + 40 = 430 years of error

    430 divided by 7 = 61.4

    430 divided by 50 = 8.6

    TOTAL = 70 YEARS

    So as I noted before, regardless of whether there is another application of 70 years that might relate to the NB Period of domination, the land has to be desolated for 70 years as well. We don't have to guess when these 70 years of desolate land begins, it begins with the last deportation and those last deported are the ones who serve the 70 years, which is the least number of years in exile of any of the Jews, since the other Jews were deported earlier.

    When we double the 430 years we get 860 years. To that we add the 70 years of make-up and we get 930 years. 930 years is one year shy of 19 jubilees. Going back from 455 BCE, 931 years takes us back to 1386 BCE, which is the earliest year the Israelites could have begun to keep their sabbaths, because that is the date of the Exodus!

    When we use the VAT4956 to correct the year 37 of Neb2 to 511 BCE, we must use the Assyrian eponym solar eclipse dated to 709 BCE rather than 763 BCE as is commonly applied. In that case, Shishak's invasion occurs in 871 BCE rather than 925 BCE. This would occur late in Solomon's reign, so when applied to year 39, it means his 4th year falls in 906 BCE, which is 480 years after the Exodus. 906 + 480 = 1386 BCE, the year of the Exodus. Add 49 years to 1386 BCE and you get 1435 BCE, which begins the period of 70 jubilees, 3430 years from 1435 BCE to 1996 AD. 1947 to 1996 is the 70th jubilee! It all works!

  • mP
    mP

    Lars:

    God likes doing things in patterns, but clearly there is flexibility and manipulation. For instance, the 70 years of desolation was clearly manipulated. It had to begin at a certain time coordinated with the last deportation. But the Jews left early and ran down to Egypt. so God had to intervene and bring a remnant back to be deported in year 23. It takes time to deport. Jerusalem had to be destroyed, first and then a few left in the land to be deported a certain year to conform to the pattern.

    MP: So why does Jehovah only manipulate the world to punish the jewish nation, but never gives them victory over larger nations when they come to fight them ? The story is always the same in Joshua they defeat small petty nations, but when Rome, Greece, Babylon, Egypt or Persia arrive Jehovah runs away. I find it hard to believe that if Jehovah really helped the land that people would turn away from him. How could people fail to see his blessings ? If Jehovah one day filled everyones house with corn and the next day made apples appear on all trees why would someone join Baal or some other god who obviously never did the same ? What was the magnetism of Baal and all the other pagans who obviously never blessed the jewish nation back ? If Jehovah was reallya ctive then how could they fail to see his blessings or was he a dead stone just like the others and there were no blessings ?
  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey Lars!..

    You know your my favorite Crazy Jesus..

    Try not to drive too many people Nuts..

    ......................  photo mutley-ani1.gif ...OUTLAW

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    607 down to one simple fact ? EASY !

    607 BCE is one year in which absolutely NOTHING happened, Google it.

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