Problems with the "Bogus AWAA Fan Page".. (page 8)

AnnOMaly

Question. Couldn't the existing FB page/group have been deleted and it set up afresh, starting over with new membership?

Except, that's not quite accurate, Cedars, and as has been pointed out, you have opened up the group and increased the likelihood of outing...I'm still hearing from people as recently as this evening who didn't realize they'd been force-added to the group until they read about it on JWN. For the reasons previously outlined, many people are unaware and it may take quite a while before they are.

Jgnat keeps asking if I feel I have been heard (I'm confused as to the motive behind the question; people are still asking questions and I respond to them with the facts that I do know or have personal experience with in this scenario. If someone states something that I know to be untrue, I will say so and will back that up with why I know it to be untrue). But anyway, I personally (can't speak for anyone else who was affected) will feel I have been heard when you do the following:

You claim you have no idea who/how many were force-added (though Juan Viejo said earlier that it was "in the hundreds", so it would seem you have at least a vague idea...and when confronted about it on your official AAWA page, your coordinator got defensive and seemed to imply that it was closer to 1,000, and justified it as being "too much work" to invite everybody properly via PM, thus openly advocating and sanctioning the force-add approach to the rest of the group in her capacity as an AAWA representative).

But OK, if I'm taking you at your word and you have no idea who/how many were force/added...then PM everybody in your entire group and let them know that they may have been added to the group without their knowledge, AAWA is very sorry and accepts full responsibility for any actual or potential breach of privacy, you have taken steps to prevent this in the future and it will not happen again, and you wanted to notify them and give them the opportunity to read the group's mission statement and choose whether to stay or go. For reasons I have outlined earlier, a "you can leave if you want" timeline post is highly insufficient and will not reach even a quarter of affected members. And it's quite easy to mass-PM your entire group. So I'm not sure why you guys keep dancing around it when it's suggested...unless you're more worried about a possible dip in your member count than doing the right thing.

Or, if you're not willing to do this, then Ann O'Maly has proposed an excellent and even more effective alternative solution; albeit one I think you'll enjoy even less. ;)

There is no other way for AAWA to limit the damage/potential damage and do your utmost to make sure people's privacy is not compromised further. Period. The end.

Welcome to running a nonprofit. Especially now that you're soliciting/accepting donations and holding yourself out as experts and public representatives, there are rules and standards you need to follow. You're not "playing" activist, now. You want to run a legally incorporated human rights organization that's supposed to help people, that means learning and abiding by a stringent code of ethics. It means being held responsible for the actions of your board members and coordinators and volunteers and group members. It means thinking things through before you act. It means realizing that your own personal agenda and image will always come second to the people you say you're trying to protect. And it means cutting the B.S. excuses, and often swallowing your pride and admitting you screwed up; doing something you don't want to do or living with a fair share of embarrassment, if it means learning from the experience and doing everything in your power to make it right. You expect people to trust you with their lives and their privacy, so earn it. As someone who co-runs her own international human rights organization, I figured out a long time ago you can't cut corners on this type of stuff, and then expect it to be OK just because you're gung-ho and passionate about your mission.

Dismissing servant

Simon: "

"This is going to fester until someone is named and shamed. I see no reason not to - they committed a huge breach of trust and I don't understand why the main concern seems to be to protect their privacy when they didn't show others the same consideration."

Of course it will. If the AAWA want to restore some of their credibility, the only thing to do is to delete the group from Facebook, and restart it with maximum security. No possibilities for individuals to add new members.

I don't understand why they didn't do it at once. As Juan Viejo stated, it looked like there were WT-apologist in the group. They could be outing names, of course, but also sabotage the actions and intentions of the AAWA.group.

So, there is only one thing to do. Delete the group, and restart it i a more secure way.

lost

fizzywiglet bang on. I totally get what your saying.

I too cannot understand that the moment they realised there was a ''massive'' problem, why did they not immediately shut down the page/remove it as a safety precaution until they found out what/who went wrong. The old sating PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE. Business owners also know the model as they have had to learn a valuable lesson at some stage, because they all muck up and get stung somewhere along the line.

Experienced / seasoned workers in the field know these things. From experience, which is why they are likened to 'master workers'.

This whole debacle has come to mean to me, that now I am looking at all this with my 'business glasses' on. And I for one as a result do not now like the things I am hearing and seeing. It is making me very un-easy. As it is reminding me of how public sector is run, and all the shenanigans, looking after their own. No openness, no honesty, no standing up and taking accountability. IT'S ABOUT TRUST. It's all about trust.

And one thing I do know for a fact THERE IS NO TRUST IN BUSINESS.

Victims / People ARE NOT A BUSINESS.

I think if you want to go after WT and go to battle one powerful force against the other. Then you follow that model and go about it in certain way.

People should never be counted as collateral damage.

(not directed at anyone or the group, just my thoughts that are niggling me)

Black Sheep

I made that suggestion two days ago. They didn't even comment on it.

headisspinning

This is ridiculous!

I don't know how many of the people commenting here have any knowledge of Facebook at all...

The issue with people being OUTED has nothing to do with the main AAWA group. That has been explained ad nauseum.

The ONLY issue with the main AAWA group is that some people were INVITED without their knowledge. The ONLY issue that causes is a minor inconvenience because that group is set to SECRET.

It was the RIP-OFF group that is responsible for adding people to an OPEN page and thereby revealing their identities.

What is unclear about that?

Dagney

Update: The at [email protected] has responded to my email. He asked me to provide him with the names of the xJW groups I am a member of on FB.

Dismissing servant

OK! That's fine, Headisspinning.

But , according to Juan Viejo, the group settings later were changed to "open to all". Is that true? Or did just Juan make a mistake when he stated this? If the group settings were changed in that way a lot of people were outed, and still are to be outed. So far we haven't seen any message from Juan or Cedars that the group settings are changed back to secret again, but I assume that you can inform us about thad, Spinning.

Anyhow, as i see it, there is still a huge problem with the group. You have 100's of members that you have no idea of who they are. According to Juan there were some Pro -WT apologists in the group. Are they still there? In that case you still have the risque with further outings.

If you have a secret group you can't just let anybody join the group. Every new potential member has to be checked out before he/she can join the group.

Why not cancel the group and restart it......this must be the best way to act regarding what has happened.

headisspinning

I just visited the group and although the notice states that secrecy cannot be guaranteed the group is only visible to the members. The posts are not visible. The name of the group is not visible. The member list is not visible. Nothing shows up in the news feeds. NONE of that shows UNLESS a person is a member.

I went through the member list and looking quickly, I am personally familiar with at approximately 75% of the names. When I click on the ones that I don't know, I am seeing that they are friends with many XJWs that I do know.

The admins have been very quick to nip any issues in the bud. The religiously neutral stance is being adhered to very closely and members have been alerted that if they have any concerns for hiding their identity, there will be no hard feelings if they choose to leave the group.

Watching what is happening from inside the group, I think the enthusiasm and momentum far outweighs any major issues.

This is only my opinion. I do not speak for AAWA. Just my two cents for what it's worth.

mind blown

DS said:

"Juan Viejo stated, it looked like there were WT-apologist in the group. They could be outing names, of course, but also sabotage the actions and intentions of the AAWA.group."

That's a risk AAWA as well as their FB Fan Page Members are going to have to take. Even if they kept the page private or non open. Once ANYONE is member of FB Page, Fan Page, or Group they can view EVERYTHING.

One solution is have a warning notice on AAWA FB Fan Page of such risk.

Deleting the AAWA FB Fan Page and starting fresh is an excellent idea. I know people who don't check their FB pages for days or months, they have other things to do.

Problems with the "Bogus AWAA Fan Page"..

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