The WTS has not stopped teaching it just not mentioning it or fogging it over. There is time regarding lifeless rock (indeterminate not part of creative period) and the preparation and the creation of life on earth (not indeterminate millions of years) per the WTS. What you think the WTS is teaching evolution now? Try asking an elder if he believes the dinosaurs were created millions of years ago.
The "Flood" in Noah's day--why wasn't that Armageddon enough?
by Terry 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AndDontCallMeShirley
P.S. -- The "nephilum" is a fanciful story and did not refer to angels at all.
I always find it interesting when an apologist argues for God and the Bible....then dismisses some portion of it they don't agree with.
If this person can dismiss the story of the Nephilim as "fanciful", then why can I not reject the entire account as absurd?
If one part of the story is suspect and can be dismissed, then why not some, or all, of the rest of it, too?
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Terry
Without "free will", love is not possible!
You cannot command someone to "Love".
Well, this is sort of "off topic" but let me answer you.
I think you are mistaken in your view about "LOVE".
First of all, emotions are involuntary reactions. The come from our individual valuations.
Love is the strongest postive emotion a human can experience. Emotions follow Values. The stronger your values the stronger your emotional reactions.
If you think snakes are lovely creatures you won't experience FEAR when you encounter one.
If you think snakes are dangerous and hideous you will be TERRIFIED when you encounter one.
Your personal VALUATION is what triggers the emotion.
If you value blonde hair and blues eyes you'll LOVE somebody with blonde hair and blues eyes that catches your fancy.
So, LOVE has nothing to do with "free will". It has to do with VALUES.
Our values are fed and enforced throughout our lifetime as we take in information. Our emotions follow.
Fears are overcome by education and conditioning as we change our valuation of the object of fear.
We can learn to love things or people by changing our ideas about them.
Free will is a red herring.
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Terry
I think that all of the armageddons both past and future are worth it even if there is only just one small handful of volunteers left.
What is the alternative?
So, the most powerful intelligence in the Universe is compelled to get things the way He wants them only through a long-winding process
of extravagent indulgence in evil followed by overwhelming destruction? Really?
God is our INVENTOR and DESIGNER if you accept scripture's descriptions.
What inventor would include within his design the provision that the thing invented could CHOOSE to function or not according to whim??
Who would design a car that could simply "decide" not to start or which could "choose" to go right when steered left?
Would the Designer beg the car to see things his way? Would the Designer threaten to junk his invention if it didn't VOLUNTEER to accept the driver's intentions?
Isn't that sort of....well....comical ineptitude instead of Supreme Intelligence?
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cognisonance
The WTS has not stopped teaching it just not mentioning it or fogging it over. There is time regarding lifeless rock (indeterminate not part of creative period) and the preparation and the creation of life on earth (not indeterminate millions of years) per the WTS. What you think the WTS is teaching evolution now? Try asking an elder if he believes the dinosaurs were created millions of years ago.
Bondie, in 2003, the Awake said this :
A creative day as understood by the ancients can mean an epoch of extended duration, in much the same way as the terms “period” and “era” are used by science in describing earth history. Thus, the Bible is not at odds with scientific findings. It indicates that the creative days lasted aeons. It does not support the conclusion of creationists who believe that those days were each 24 hours in length.
Merriam-Webster dictionary defines aeon as:
1 : an immeasurably or indefinitely long period of time :age 2 : ausually eon: a very large division of geologic time usually longer than an era ba unit of geologic time equal to one billion years
So it appears that the WTS has stopped teaching that there creative days are 7,000 years long. Now just saying that they were "epochs of extended duration," and "eras." The term aeon, however doesn't seem to quite match the idea of an "era," since the dictionary says an aeon is longer than an era, and why not just say 1,000,000,000 years! So reading this Awake article, one could come away thinking the WTS accepts creative days as being a billion years each? (Which would be in conflict with science as the earth is not 4.5 billion plus 6/7 more billion, and neither is it 6/7 billion years old), So why did they use the term aeon? Still it sounds much longer than 7,000 years.
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Terry
It's easy to second guess God, but it's not generally a good idea in my book. This doesn't mean God didn't love the people He destroyed; they are His children, just as we are.
If Hannibal Lector were God I could agree with your description of "Love".
All I'm asking you to do is take a step back from myth-thinking and use your own good sense and intelligence.
When we are talking about "God" we assume supreme capacity to get things done efficiently, don't we?
When you possess all the power that exists there is no way you can NOT have things your way.
On what possible basis would this God (who could do anything anytime He wanted) LOVE something that doesn't work properly which He invented?
If you are the worlds greatest golfer and can't get the ball in the cup---what possible claim can you have on "greatness?"
Should you blame your clubs? Should you plead with the ball to go straighter?
RELIGION MAKES EXCUSES for the incompetency of God!
GOD is said to "intend" to make everything come out His way.....eventually.........according to his "master plan".....no matter how many thousands of years it takes!
In the meantime all the awful things happen which he has to sweep up after.
THIS IS AN EXCUSE and not an explanation of why God doesn't just "get 'er done!"
Let's not make excuses. Let's just look at what we are TOLD is true and ask how it makes any sense.
Okay?
If we are weak, sinful, pathetic wretches who deserve to die (as the bible so describes mankind) ON WHAT BASIS would a perfect God
value those traits, flaws, actions and worthless attributes so as to "LOVE" us? Love is a function of Value.
According to the Values God placed in the Law of Moses Eye for Eye and Tooth for Tooth was the proper basis for His dealings with humanity.
Then---whoops!
Jesus comes along and God scraps the whole thing and changes His values upside down and topsy-turvy!
The innocent is punished and the guilty go free: Grace!
What a corruption of Values! What a mockery of Love!
Just think about it before you disagree. Stop making excuses and THINKfirst!
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Terry
A creative day as understood by the ancients can mean an epoch of extended duration, in much the same way as the terms “period” and “era” are used by science in describing earth history. Thus, the Bible is not at odds with scientific findings.
Whoa!
Who is the "source" the Watchtower is citing? Isn't it the very murky "ancients" whoever the hell they are? The Watchtower is not citing scripture and not quoting the bible, therefore, how do YOU conclude "the bible is not at odds with scientific findings" from this?
As far as the Watchtower is concerned they are a flag that blows whatever way the wind blows. The have no basis for anything they teach because they are not honest intellectually in citing sources or even in printing quotations. Their track record is the pits!
Being an apologist is a hard job.
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blondie
So why did they use the term aeon?
They are scholarly deceptive....as Terry says, no source is cited. The WTS wants to have the 7,000 year day go....but as long as they tie 6,000 years back to the creation of Eve and today it is hard to say that the seven days in a week are equal amounts of time, and then to say that days 1 through 6 could be millions of years long but then keep the 7th day under 10,000....is highly deceptive. The WTS hopes that people who lived through 1966 and 1975 die soon and they are then they can bury this further. (sort of like the 1925 doctrine).
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Ucantnome
Timing
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BU2B
If men (nimrod) building the tower was soooo bad, why did God allow the Great pyramid of Giza to be built hundreds of years prior to it? Also why does he allow far taller structures to be built today, like say the Burg Khalifa in Dubai, the tallest manmade structure ever? Or even the CN Toronto? Why are these less objectionable?