The "Flood" in Noah's day--why wasn't that Armageddon enough?

by Terry 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    This doesn't mean God didn't love the people He destroyed; they are His children, just as we are.

    Hmmm....isn't this the same reasoning a wife-beater uses? He beats the s**t out of his wife, then claims he loves her and won't do it again? Then when he beats her again, says he loves her....

    Terry- to your point, God has no one to blame (if you believe in God) for past and present flaws in humanity but himself. He created humans; the creation is a perfect reflection of it's creator (the Bible even says it- created "in his image"). But, the potter continues to blame the pot for the way it turned out.

    Even with humans one person will often lash out at another, not because they're so different, but because one person sees their negative attributes in the other, and it makes them uncomfortable and angry. I've come to this conclusion about the thought of a creator: humans reflect so perfectly the qualities of their creator (how could we not), rather than being diametrically opposed, that it makes him uncomfortable. So, he lashes out, blaming the creation for being exactly the way he made it to be- a carbon copy of himself.

    And, it's not just humans. According to the Bible, the angels went their own way as well, long before the creation of humans. The entire history of all of god's creation, spirit or human, is a failure. Or is it? Maybe the end result is inevitable and actually a success (albeit negative)-depending on how you view it.

  • notsurewheretogo
    notsurewheretogo

    @cognisonance, Blondie

    I was in for 16 years and just recently came out of the b0rg but I've never seen the society, in my time in, teach that each day in Genesis was a deternimate peroid of time, it was always "a peroid of time not specified in length". Thus as that Awake! in 2003 highlights the WT teaches that the earth came into existence billions of years ago...I'm not saying they didn't teach it but I know as of now they do not...

    Whilst it doesn't solve the rather strange sugggestion that humans are only 6,000 years old on this earth I wouldn't expect them to teach that the earth is just thousands of years old...

    And I don't mean to cause offence but I would expect someone who posts on multiple websites each week highlighting where the WT goes wrong in their WT study to be up-to-date on what they teach...

  • Terry
    Terry

    Terry-to your point, God has no one to blame (if you believe in God) for past and present flaws in humanity but himself. He created humans; the creation is a perfect reflection of it's creator (the Bible even says it- created "in his image"). But, the potter continues to blame the pot for the way it turned out.

    This provoked the analogy in scripture that the pot should not ask its "creator" the question "Why did you make me thus?"

    It goes so far as to claim the potter (i.e. God) makes some vessels only fit for destruction!

    All of which sounds suspiciously like the bible writer had no inspiration to go on---it just seemed like God could destroy anybody he'd created

    summarily because He wanted to!

    Oops, this human isn't working out---SMASH!

    None of this is INFORMATION or explanation it is just dumb description of the observable with an assumption tossed in as though it were "wisdom."

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Cold Steel...

    you said: " Not all were equally as wicked in Noah's day, but my point is the God "wipes out" no one. He just...ummm...changes their scenery. Even those destroyed at Jesus' coming will be very much alive in spirit. And though they may be punished, it will not be forever. Some believe that Hell is both temporary and remedial. And ultimately men will be their own tormentors. "

    the flood in noah's day was to destroy wickedness. God said that those with purely human DNA were wicked too(genesis 6:6). God also said that there would be a resurrection of the just and the unjust (acts 24:15)

    "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
    Some to everlasting life,
    Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    Those who are wise shall shine
    Like the brightness of the firmament,
    And those who turn many to righteousness
    Like the stars forever and ever. daniel 12:2-3 (at the time of the end, daniel 12:4)

    In this resurrection it is seen that there are those who turn many to righteousness.

    THEN Jesus, the living Word, came speaking the law and the prophets and turned many to righteousness (jeremiah 23:5-6).

    Jesus raised lazarus (a jewish son) from the grave. The account of the rich man and lazarus from the mouth of the living Word, Jesus Christ:

    “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

    “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’” (luke 16:19-31)

    please note that both of these men had the law and the prophets. One son believed (had faith, like abraham) and one son did not. It can be said that because lazarus had been resurrected...so had the rich man been. The place that this rich man had gone was not temporary or remedial in the sense that it was a cleansing place, it was a perminent place where God sends people who aren't turned to righteousness. Jesus illustrated that there is a great "FIXED" golf between the two and there is no going back and forth. The people who are not turned to righteousness are not undergoing a cleansing period. they stay there being tormented in a flame (not tormenting themselves)...so, who will you believe, Jesus or "some" (acts 24:14)

    the flood wasn't enough because the resurrection and final seperation was still in the future.

    love michelle

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    [edit] Let us not forget, the entire 1975 fiasco was based on the premise of a 7,000 year creative "day". 6,000 years of human existence from Adam's creation allegedly ended in 1975, thereby beginning the next 1,000 year period, the seventh (and the wished-for demise of billions of non-JWs).

    The WT may have changed their tune for no other reason than to distance themselves from that piece of hopelessly flawed historical nonsense.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Let's see if I have this straight...

    1.We are born with a fatal flaw and consequently can't help ourselves; we sin.

    2.Sin offends God and leads to our death no matter what.

    3.Both "good" people (less bad than evil) and awful people die irrespective of their "goodness/badness" quotient.

    4.Both good and bad people are resurrected. They are judged by god and newly minted anointed judges who were human.

    5.Jesus' blood covers the sins of those who had a certain mental attitude and behavior. (Grace.)

    6.Jesus' blood does NOT cover those who have certain other attitudes and behavior. (Condemnation.)

    Saving...killing...resurrecting...is this really a PLAN?

    Why the Rube Goldberg nonsense?

  • Terry
    Terry

    Let us not forget, the entire 1975 fiasco was based on the premise of a 7,000 year creative "day". 6,000 years of human existence from Adam's creation allegedly ended in 1975, thereby beginning the next "day", the seventh (and the wished-for demise of billions of non-JWs).

    The WT may have changed their tune for no other reason than to get away from that piece of hopelessly flawed historical nonsense.

    Need we point out that they made exactly THE SAME MISTAKE twice in their history concerning the 6,000 years of human existence ending?

    Does the Watchtower ever learn from its errors?

    Apparently not.

    Trivia question: Who can tell us the date for the first time this idea was tried out and failed?

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Trivia question: Who can tell us the date for the first time this idea was tried out and failed?

    "Here we furnish the evidence that from the creation of Adam to (but not including) A.D. 1873 was six thousand years. And though the Bible contains no direct statement that the seventh thousand will be the epoch of Christ's reign, the great Sabbath Day of restitution to the world, yet the venerable tradition is not without a reasonable foundation." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 39. 1889)

    Note: Russel openly acknowledges two points:

    1. his teaching had no scriptural basis, yet he taught it anyway, and,

    2. the teaching was really a tradition of men, not a teaching of God

    Other than that it was a great doctrine (not!)

  • return of parakeet
    return of parakeet

    Cold Steel: " This doesn't mean God didn't love the people He destroyed; they are His children, just as we are. But they didn't cease from being. Instead, when their bodies died, they were put in sort of a penalty box, where they stayed until the crucifixion of Jesus.

    (P.S. -- The "nephilum" is a fanciful story and did not refer to angels at all. This issue of "giants" is an interesting topic and one for another topic.)"

    Where are you getting this stuff from -- the Book of Mormon?

  • Terry
    Terry

    That teaching about the 7th day totally CONSUMED the preaching and teaching work of the Watchower Society and 7 million members from 1968 to the fateful end of 1975 when, as the song says, there was a "hush all over the world."

    The sound of NOTHING happening.

    Ask yourself how honest it is to make an embarassing mistake twice and take 7 million people into your error!

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