HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!! (page 7)

Giordano

Speaking about the blood issue "how many people had to die, since this "new light doctrine" came out?"

Well they are still dieing because many JW's don't understand what factions they can take.

Marvin Shilmer has a blog that has an article about one serious medical condition and a study of non witnesses and witnesses and their survival rates (witnesses had a confirmed mortality rate of 18% to 20% higher) which for this ten year period would have caused some 50,000 needless deaths world wide. Considering the state of medicine back in 1945 when the blood issue became part of the doctrine and considering the importance of blood for trauma, cancer , open heart surgery and other surgeries as well as the medical status of third world countries I do not see a death count much lower then 250,000 to 500,000 over the past 68 years and counting.

http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com

Gojira_101

@ Jen2013: First off, welcome to the forum. You can have a lot of your questions answered on here, there are some people on here who have done a lot of research. *lost* has done some fantastic research, Newly Enlightened is my mother, Brother of the Hawk is my father.

The WT I was referring to is the 1980 WT Feb 1st pg 11-13 "The divine name in later times" my mom, Newly Enlightened copied that WT to this topic. The info is the first post from the 2nd page.

The NWT scripture says Romans 10:13 "Anyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" It is interesting because the old diaglot bible the JW's back in the 40's says "Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord (Meaning Jesus) will be saved" Newly Enlightened also scanned that page of the diaglot if you want to see it. That scan is below the WT she posted.

I sent you a PM. You check by clicking on the envelop in the top right corner by your name. If you get an error message, just click it again :)

Gojira

Gojira_101

@ Julia Orwell: I'm sorry I haven't emailed too, it's been crazy busy. I sent a message yesterday :)

I explained how I've been doing in my message yesterday. I can't wait to hear from you :)

Gojira

Gojira_101

@ ADCMS: My friend had said when she learned "the truth" she had already limited contact with her "worldly family"

Just before we parted ways, she looked kind of sick when she said "I'm going to have to tell my family the JW's are wrong."

I told her at least she still has family to go back to and her family will be happy to have her back.

Gojira_101

@ Giordano: Her girls are still young, and I made it clear to her that she it is when they grow up and if they reject the "truth" she can't have that much contact with them and she basically has to shun them.

Me on the other hand if she talked to me and another mutual friend of ours who is an ex-jw, my deaf friend will be df'ed for talking to us.

I should have made that more clear in my post, my brain wasn't working at full strength because of being so tired from the 4+ hours talking to someone in a language that is not my native language.

The whole blood doctrine just makes me angry! With my friend she believes that no blood transfusion at all, so instead of telling her that belief is wrong I approached it from a different angle. I told her and explained how WT has changed changed that policy over the years and also with organ transplants. When saw how the policy has changed over the years and now that blood fractions are ok, she was disgusted. She said that if it was true there should be no changes. After that is when I showed her from the bible what the WT blood doctrine really was a conflict with the bible. I explained what the bible was really talking about with abstaining from blood. My whole goal wasn't to tell her she was wrong. Never once did I say SHE was wrong. I would show her how WT is wrong.

I think that was part of the reason she opened up and was more accepting of what I told her, because I never "attacked" her or say she is wrong.

Gojira

Newly Enlightened

Black Sheep: Gojira's Dad & I were JW's for 45+ yrs each, so believe me, we do kind of know what we're talking about. So if you haven't read Ray Franz's book Crisis of Conscience pgs 357-377 I highly recommend it.

For having WT literature to back up what we say here it is:

WT 1980 9/15 pg 25:

NOT SHARING IN WICKED WORKS

25

All faithful Christians need to take to heart the serious truth that God inspired John to write: “He that says a greeting to [an expelled sinner who is promoting an erroneous teaching or carrying on ungodly conduct] is a sharer in his wicked works.”—2 John 11.

26

Many of Christendom’s commentators take exception to 2 John 11. They claim that it is ‘unchristian counsel, contrary to the spirit of our Lord,’ or that it encourages intolerance. Yet such sentiments emanate from religious organizations that do not apply God’s command to “remove the wicked man from among yourselves,” that seldom if ever expel even notorious wrongdoers from their churches. (1 Cor. 5:13) Their “tolerance” is unscriptural, unchristian.—Matt. 7:21-23; 25:24-30; John 8:44.

27

But it is not wrong to be loyal to the righteous and just God of the Bible. He tells us that he will accept ‘in his holy mountain’ only those who walk faultlessly, practice righteousness and speak truth. (Ps. 15:1-5) If, though, a Christian were to throw in his lot with a wrongdoer who has been rejected by God and disfellowshiped, or has disassociated himself, that would be as much as saying ‘I do not want a place in God’s holy mountain either.’ If the elders saw him heading in that direction by regularly keeping company with a disfellowshiped person, they would lovingly and patiently try to help him to regain God’s view. (Matt. 18:18; Gal. 6:1) They would admonish him and, if necessary, ‘reprove him with severity.’ They want to help him remain ‘in God’s holy mountain.’ But if he will not cease to fellowship with the expelled person, he thus has made himself ‘a sharer (supporting or participating) in the wicked works’ and must be removed from the congregation, expelled.—Titus 1:13; Jude 22, 23; compare Numbers 16:26.

Gojira_101

I love the fact I can finally comment to people individually instead of one post with 10 peoples name.

Thank you so much everyone for the kind words. I'm trying my best with my friend and she actually contacted me several times yesterday asking me questions and expressing the struggle she was having with what she was researching.

One of the things was she told me that she still had learned a lot from the JW's, so they still might be right.

I told her that it wasn't the JW you learned it from, it was from the bible she learned it. If she had just picked up a bible and started to read it, she would have learned the same thing without the JW's help. She told me I was right.

Then I also said that is the JW's lied even about one thing, what else did they lie about, and she said "that is a good point"

I'm so happy she is coming to me, since I have been there and I understand her feelings and what she is going through right now (I went through the same thing), I can help her. I know her mind is a scrambled mess right now, so when it is, I can ask her questions to help her understand and think things through themselves.

What is it WT taught us in the school? Ask questions to see what is in your bible studies heart to draw them out. WT screwed up by teaching me that!!!!

I will keep posting updates when I have them.

Gojira (I will never compromise my integrity)

Newly Enlightened

Jen2013 & *Lost*: Those articles I listed are from the 2011 WT Lib CD. ADCMS is correct, the WT's are available back to 1950. There is also a Catholic Website that has preserved & scanned most of Russell & Rutherfraud's writings & books:

http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/jwhistory.html

Welcome Jen2013, glad to have you here with us. If you have any questions or need any old literature, Don't call me Shirley or us, can try to help you.

A couple of experiences that I know of personally. My nephew's wife, before they were married. She was not baptized and the day she turned 18 her parents kicked her out. She had no job yet, no place to go. Thankfully since her & my nephew were already planning on getting married when she finished school they hurried and got married.

Another one: Hubby's cousin, was DF'd and seen her Mom in the mall and went up to hug her and say hi, but her mom pushed her away physically and said "You know the rules, you made the choice, now get out of my face"!

This org. does nothing but foster hatred and no tolerance, even for family members. And done allegedly in the name of God and love.

Our own JW family has not talked to us since Jan of this year. My little brother, who was never baptized but raised a JW, came out of the closet and was gay. My mother & siblings shunned him and he ended up committing suicide.

So, they may not actually put it in black & white, but it is inferred. But I also understand how the deaf community has difficulty understanding these rules, just like they don't understand sarcasm when communicating with the hearing because they cannot 'hear' the tone.

ABibleStudent

Fantastic accomplishment Gojira_101 of reverse witnessing. I hope that your friend progresses as starts to critically think for herself.

Gojira_101 - 2) she phsyically looked like she was going to be sick, that is the same look my husband had on his face when my parents told us TTATT.

Out of curiousity why do you feel your parents were successful in showing TTATT to you and your husband? Is there any similiarities between you showing your friend TTATT and your parents showing you and your husband TTATT? It seems like your friend had not given up critically thinking for herself and that she cared more about her relationship with you than with the WTBTS.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

Newly Enlightened

Sorry ADCMS: I guess I should have asked you before we volunteered your services regarding the old literature.

But Jen2013 & Lost we should be able to get you almost any old literature you need.

Sweetie, you're right. The WT taught us too well because we now can also use their OWN literature against them.

HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!!

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