HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!!

by Gojira_101 107 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Gojira_101

  @ Biblestudent: Out of curiosity why do you feel your parents were successful in showing TTATT to you and your husband?

  My husband and I left WT didn't we? I'd say that is successful. I'm not sure if this is what you mean.

  Is there any similarities between you showing your friend TTATT and your parents showing you and your husband TTATT?

  I remember for myself when my parents started telling me TTATT I felt like I was going to be sick, my stomach was very upset, and I hardly ate anything at lunch. My husband since I could see his face, his look was the exact same look as my friends face. It's hard to explain, but you can clearly see the emotion on a person's face. I'm very good at reading body language because I am an ASL interpreter, I have to know what people are saying with their body language.

  The look my friend had and the look my husband had was shock, disbelief, disgust, anger, sadness, tears....all at the same time. It's very hard to explain what it looks like. I even saw this same look on my parents face many times while we were realizing all the lies of WT. Then something else that was similar is the asking question. I can't remember specifically what my questions were to my parents when they were telling us TTATT, but my friend started asking me questions based on the basic teachings of JW's

  Does that answer your questions? If not I will try again :)

  Gojira
• 

  Jen2013

  It is also very likely that the god Jahveh was just a volcano, which ancient people worshipped. Lately we had some documentaries on TV about that issue and I found also this interesting blog: http://ohmyvolcano.blogspot.de/2011/11/list-of-biblical-verses-that-suggest.html
  
  What drives me almost crazy is, that one single bozo (was it Rutherford or who was it?), one single bozo invented a doctrine that no blood transfusions are allowed and by that forced already thousands of gullible people, kids and even unborn to die. Obeying an invented doctrine, having to refuse life-saving blood transfusions and having to die as martyr just to please a supposable ancient volcano-god called Jahveh (or Jehova or whatever), which illiterate ancient desert nomads made up and worshipped, is so insane, disgusting, detestable and absolutely intolerable and in my opinion a crime against humanity.
  
  Looking at the cover of the May 22, 1994 Awake! magazine makes me cry.
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  When [she] saw how the policy has changed over the years and now that blood fractions are ok, she was disgusted. She said that if it was true there should be no changes.

  If this doesn't wake someone up, nothing will.

  Prior to 1961: blood transfusions acceptable, organ transplants banned.

  After 1961: Blood transfusions banned, organ transplants acceptable. Blood fractions were also banned.

  Now: organ transplants acceptable, blood transfusions banned, blood fractions acceptable (now so many "fractions" are allowed it would be easier just to get the transfusion!)

  BTW- every currently held view by the WT for these policies had "solid scriptural basis". Question: how can you have two policies completely opposed to each other yet both have "solid" scriptural backing?
• 

  *lost*

  Gojira yo have done a great job, and your parents.

  It's great that you are also an example to any lurkers/faders in that your still a believer, and having the opportunity to be able to discuss it from that aspect is great.

  I know for a fact, one of the MAJOR things that keeps them bound to the borg is - where else is there for us to go, they are there for God. The trouble with the 'apsotate' teaching that WT have twisted to suit their system of control, is jw think everyone who leaves is atheist etc and no longer believe in God. and they will cling to the org tighter, because they think they are clinging to God.

  If they can see there are places to go where they can chat about their fears and worries and not be ridiculed for still believing is a big bonus. then they can start dealing with facts and slowly make that arduous journey of seperating themselves.

  I stumbled on the TTATT, found it here, very scary. I wasn't a die hard militant jw, I was and still am a believer, I was there for what I felt was my own personal relationship with God the Bible and Jesus. I never thought or doubted for one moment I was learning anything but the TRUTH. I was also in that place where I would of sacrificed my life - yep, refused blood 3 times.

  What I found the hardest was, I still believed in God, I want to believe in God, I want to be able to talk about and share the knowledge with others, there is so much we don't know, and it does fascinate me. But where was I going to go and who was I going to talk to ? It was very traumatic. I was so scared the first time I came here and took a look ... that was traumatic, I was sinful, going against God, lol.

  I met some great people here. Meeting your mum and dad has been the best ever for me, cos I now have people I can ask questions and share thoughts and ideas and theories, no matter how whacky they may seem. lol

  Without anyone taking the piss, or downing me or ridiculing me for being stupid etc because I choose to believe.

  Yesterday, well, boy ,oh boy, lol, I was a bit of a mess again wasn't I - FREAK OUT!!! lol. But cos I had your mum and dad to help guide me and I have built a measure of trust in them, it made it easier for me and I bounced right back.

  For some of us it's not easy, when we still believe. Because where else is there to go.

  much love xxxxx
• 

  Captain Blithering

  Brilliant thread, go gojira!

  They taught you too well, now that education is biting them in their posterior!
• 

  Newly Enlightened

  ADCMS: VERY GOOD point! How can they BOTH be solidily based on scripture when they are total opposites! Hubby says "I have a beer waiting for you here in the future."

  Reminds me of the WT 1972 1/1 pg 32: Question from readers [ Pasted below] BUT then 11 months later CHANGED it AGAIN

  *Lost* Thank you for the wonderful compliment. We enjoy discussing things with you also. I hope you're feeling better today. It is very traumatic when you learn the lies.

  Love & Hugs

  WT 1972 1/1

  Questions

  Do homosexual acts on the part of a married person constitute a Scriptural ground for divorce, freeing the innocent mate to remarry?—U.S.A.

  Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.

  In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: “Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.”—Matt. 19:9.

  Thus “fornication” is seen to be the only ground for divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.

  The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.

  It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 “fornication” is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that “everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution or adultery.

  The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became “one flesh,” and then added: “What God has yoked together let no man put apart.” (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could never become “one flesh” in order to procreate. It might be added, in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: “Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.”—1 Cor. 15:39.

  While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual “one flesh” with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.
• 

  ABibleStudent

  Gojira_101 - Does that answer your questions? If not I will try again :)

  Hi Gojira_101, It seems that "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs will blindly follow the WTBTS's doctrines no matter what. Where as "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking) JWs will not blindly follow the WTBTS's doctrines. Do you feel that you, your husband, and your friend when you were JWs were "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) or "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking) JWs? Do you feel that you, your husband, and your friend value relationships of relatives and close friends more than following the WTBTS's doctrines?

  I just wonder if the power of the Shun Gun is easier to overcome when JWs still think for themselves and value relationships with people more than cherishing the belief of being a JW and belonging to the WTBTS.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Newly Enlightened-

  I'm glad you posted that WT quote. Probably one of the most absurd policies the WT ever concocted. Note their policy has scriptural basis that sounds plausible (to the mentally asleep).

  One year later this policy was completely reversed- also with solid "scriptural" basis:

  W 12-15-72, p.766 QFR

  ....What, then, is the significance of the Bible’s use of these terms and what does it reveal as to the valid Biblical grounds for divorce? It shows that any married person who goes outside the marriage bond and engages in immoral sexual relations, whether with someone of the opposite sex or someone of the same sex, whether natural or unnatural and perverted, is guilty of committing por·nei

  ′ a or "fornication" in the Bible sense. Such sexual relations do not refer to minor indiscretions a person might commit, as by a kiss or caress or embrace, but refer to immoral use of the genital organs in some form of intercourse, natural or unnatural...when a mate is guilty of such serious sexual immorality the innocent mate

  may Scripturally divorce

  This clearly marks a correction in the view expressed on previous occasions
• 

  Brother of the Hawk

  ABible Student: Gojira's dad here. I would like to answer part of your question If I may. "Spiritually strong"( non thinking )JWs will stay with WTBTS. Spiritually strong( thinking) JWS will also stay with WTBTS, because of family and friends.

  Spiritually weak (still thinking) JW's will also stay with WTBS because of family and friends, there have been many threads started here where both statements can be proven true.

  I can only relate our story. NE and I and Gojira have always considered ourselves, as you put it , "Spiritually strong" we were the ones who would be called at the last mnuite to give a substitue talk, when I was serving as a MS I cannot tell you how many times I covered parts because others begged off on their parts. Spiritually strong , YES. Thinking for ourselves, YES,

  Our problem has always been seeing the imperfections of men. Very soon there is going to be a video on youtube where NE and I video taped an elders meeting with us, BTW Gojira was in the next room taking notes through the door...

  The biggest problem though we would see constantly Elders pushing their own personal opinion as scripture.. Again, MEN. We still believed this was God's ORG. Untill one day while getting reaquainted with a friend for over 20 years, also a "Spiritually strong" man came to visit us, we were catching up on things, (a move to another state has seperated us) I had made a comment "JWs are the most self decieved people in the entire world, they think the Elders are going to be there when they need them, they will not be". Well this gave my beloved BROTHER the opportunity to tell us about TTATT. At that time he was not posting here yet. What did it for NE and I was when he said he now believed Christ died on the cross. The best thing he did was encourage us to do OUR OWN research, and gave us the sites to visit. For the first time in over 45 years NE and I could see the LIES with the ORG. it was no longer men. You see we had enough respect for our friend that we listened to him, instead of throwing him out. Being spiritually strong also means having enough love to hear someone out, even if it's contrary to belief.

  Being "Spiritually strong" means being able to see the lie and readjust your thinking yourself, and not letting others do it for you. Being "Spiritually strong" also means knowing there are consequences that have to be paid, We lost all our family, except our Daughter and her husband. That is a price we were willing to pay. We are so thankful that he spoke up. Thank you so much my dear, dear friend. I Love you!

  Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever)
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Flip-Flops

  Would Jehovah really lead his own organization in such a manner?

  Would he want his organization to embarrass him in such a manner?

  Zion's Watchtower", 2/1881, p.3:

  " a new view of Truth never can contradict a former Truth. 'New Light' never extinguishes older 'light', but adds to it."

  Watchtower, 1973 July 1st p.402:

  "Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or force (Zech,4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book...
  
  "How very much true Christians appreciate associating with the only organization on earth that understands the ‘deep things of God’! Direction by God’s spirit enables Jehovah’s servants to have divine light in a world of spiritual darkness."

  Who is The 'Lord' as mentioned in Romans 10:12-16

  1903 - 'Lord' refers to Jesus.

  1940 - 'Lord' refers to Jehovah.

  1978 - 'Lord' refers to Jesus.

  1980 - 'Lord' refers to Jehovah.

  Will the people of Sodom and Gomorrah be eligible for resurrection

  1879 - Will be resurrected -W 7/1879, pp. 7-8

  1955 - Will not be resurrected

  1965 - Will be resurrected -W 8/1/65, p. 479

  1967 - Will not be resurrected -W 7/1/67, p 409

  1969 and 1971 Will be resurrected - "Aid" bk., p.1519

  1974 - Will be resurrected

  1988 - Will not be resurrected -W 6/01/88, p.31

  1988 - Will be resurrected -It vol. 2, p. 985

  1989 - Will not be resurrected - "Live Forever", p. 179

  Is Blood, Blood serum and blood fractions allowed

  1940 Blood transfusions are acceptable

  1945 Blood transfusion are not acceptable

  1956 Blood serums should be treated as blood and are banned

  1958 Blood serums and fractions acceptable

  1959 Storage of own blood unacceptable

  1961 Blood fractions are not acceptable

  1964 Blood fractions are acceptable

  1974 Blood serums are personal choice

  1975 Hemophilia treatments (Factor VII & IX) are not acceptable

  1978 Hemophilia treatments (Factor VII & IX) are acceptable

  1982 Albumin is acceptable

  1983 Hemodilution is acceptable

  1990 Hemodilution is not acceptable (Blood Brochure)

  1995 Hemodilution is acceptable

  Who are the ‘Higher Powers' mentioned at Romans 13:1

  W 6/15/52, p.375 refers to Jehovah and Jesus

  W 11/15/61 refers to governments

  W 11/15/62, p. 683 refers to governments

  1916 - 'Higher powers' refers to governments.

  1943 - 'Higher powers' refers to Jehovah God & Jesus Christ.

  1964 - 'Higher powers' refers to governments.

  Russel taught that the "Superior Authorities" refer to governments

  Rutherford taught that the "Superior Authorities" refer to Jehovah and Jesus

  in 1961 the WTS reverted back to Russel's original teaching on the "superior authorities"

  When will the Separating of the 'sheep and goats' take place (Matt. 25:31-46)

  1919 - will take place after the time of tribulation

  1923 - is taking place now, before the tribulation.

  1995 - will take place after the tribulation