Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead

by Sam Whiskey 469 Replies latest jw friends

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Marvin-

    Since you didn't answer this point:

    “I wonder if Marvin, Sam and other would be so forgiving if this student had spoken about atheism, reinstituting human slavery in the USA, why pedophilia is not so bad, or what he thinks are the virtues of The Holocaust and Naziism? Since his "chutzpa" seems to be the most important consideration, not his subject matter, he should have been allowed to speak about those things with equal protection.”

    But, said this:

    I want to know whatever a valedictorian has to say, whatever that is.

    Can I safely conclude that had this Valedictorian said, "My academic achievements are based on: I am a Jew-hating Neo-Nazi pedophile who would love to see another ethnic cleansing on the scale of The Holocaust, including the extermination of all Christians. I also want to see women's rights abolished and slavery reinstituted in the USA".

    You'd want to hear that?

    And, you'd criticize anyone who disagreed?

  • Sayswho
    Sayswho

    • His speech was in-appropriate..

    REALLY!...in-appropriate...there is a time and place for everything, this was not the platform for his opinion.

    IMO

    SW

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley
    REALLY!...in-appropriate...there is a time and place for everything, this was not the platform for his opinion.

    Sam and Marvin fail to realize that.

    But, as long as he recited the Lord's Prayer, they will approve of it.

    You see, fundies view their opinions and beliefs as superior to all others, therefore you MUST listen to them and agree.

    Had this valedictorian recited a prayer to "The Flying Spaghetti Monser", instead of the Lord's Prayer, I'm sure Marvin would call him an idiot for choosing to speak about such a stupid subject, regardless of his academic achievements.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I don't current practice. When I was a valedictorian, the teachers wrote my speech. I had no idea what to write. They "suggested," There was not one word or thought of mine on the speech. Different places select different people. It is not always the highest grades.

    Pls. every place I ever attended school, if I were not one of the top two, my closest friends were. This would be outrageous conduct from any religion. People are there to see their family members graduate. The students are there to hug each other and celerbate with fun. Little attention is paid to ceremony. You do need some event, though, to plan the parties around it.

    I graduated from a private university. It was during the height of the Viet Nam War. Parents schemed like mad to get their kids into the school and paid a fortune. The kids rebelled but learned a lot. You say b.s. about what you learned. When I graduated, we attended our local college graduation which was intimate, only a few hundred people, and the massive university event, with thousands upon thousands.

    So I am graduating Barnard in 1975. Even the SDS contingent is split up, according to alphabetical order. I never saw my faculty look better. The grounds have fresh flowers for once. Banners are everywhere. We march it. Families snap. A famous American author and screenplay writer delivers remarks. The local press is out in force to snap our photos. The New York Times is part of our local press. It was bland but I thank God for bland after what we went through b/c of the draft and protests.

    Barnard throws us a short reception, while Columbia College holds its festivities. There is a massive celebration of both schools, informally off campus, at Rockefeller Center. The marching band entertains us.

    We cross the street as a group, still in cap and gown, and take our place for the university wide graduation. Every single two bit school in the university is present. The crowd is so massive it reaches as far as the eye can see. Boring. Yet we can't smoke weed or sing Beatles or Dylan out of respect for others. Naturally, the Columbia College contingent is only a few feet away from us. We laugh so hard at the guys wearing gorilla suits. I think why can't the women wear gorilla suits to graduation? Those men have it all. The main campus and gorilla suits. A whole bunch of academics and famous people receive honorary degrees. Time stops. No one is prepared for this. The actual scientists and physicians who developed the modern birth control pill are receiving an honorary degree. We are shocked.

    The entire multitude, including family members, spontaenously cheers. People throw their caps in the air. There is a big competition between Barnard and Columbia over who can cheer this particular degree the loudest. Barnard wins b/c we stand on our chairs to shout. It takes a long while to calm down so the next honoree can get their honorary degree.

    End of story.

    High school. Because of race riots and other tensions, we cannot graduate in the auditorim as countless generations have before us. We have to go out of our way to the city skating rink. Total boredom. A kid graduates who took ten years to finish high school. Everyone gives him more respect, including the teachers, than the valedictorian and salutarian. I don't know him personallhy but the nearest Italian kid tells me he had so much trouble. In fact, he was a Mafiaso but wanted to get out. He worked harder than anyone could ever realize. I applaud him more seriously than anyone else. Friends speak. I speak. Everyone wants to go to the parties.

    A dear friends' father was a Pentecostal minister. I've know the guy and his parents since preschool. With a school of many black Baptists and extraordinary student ministers, this white dude starts praying. Everyone is polite. B/c of my JW training, I glance around. Everyone but me has their head bowed. The old white dude prays. Hours go by. The white dude prays. I start thinking what other people are thinking. Jesse Jackson came to speak to us, not our teachers or parents. He was about 20, had a huge Afro, and worse a dashiki. Why could they not invite him to pray? The white dude prays. Maybe he was confused b/c we were not holy rollers. Now I'm thinking the local ignorant, boring monsigneur would have finished hours ago. The white dude prays. The black kids and familes can't take anymore. Mumbling starts. I glance up, glad that they are making noise so maybe the white dude will get the hint and wind up.

    I can't keep my head down. This prayer is about nothing at all and he is just starting from all indications.....My teachers and the entire administration are looking at each other. No one seems to know what to do. The city councilman and congressperson sit nicely but they seem surprised too. This is a very public school. We have many Jews and Moslems, too. He keeps praying about Jesus, Paul, and Timothy. The KH was better. The black kids start screaming, "Get him off the stage." "Drag, that honkey man down now!" Some Italians add, IThe coloreds are right. Stop." He finally ends.

    Food is cold. Relatives called the police to see what was happening. They knew something was very wrong.

    Graduation is a time for general, bland niceties. The important stuff you say privately. All you learn that day is how to celebrate with flair. One more year of school and I might be rich b/c the school officials did nothing. People meet after thirty years and we recall the endless prayer. No one can recall what he was praying about or for. All we know is that Pentecostal were but a very small fraction. The principal prob. decided we could without prayer for several years.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    -

    “Can I safely conclude that had this Valedictorian said, "My academic achievements are based on: I am a Jew-hating Neo-Nazi pedophile who would love to see another ethnic cleansing on the scale of The Holocaust, including the extermination of all Christians. I also want to see women's rights abolished and slavery reinstituted in the USA".

    “You'd want to hear that?”

    As I said before: I’d want to hear whatever the valedictorian had to say about what makes him or her tick.

    This is how we learn what compels folks in our communities.

    If you’re not listening you’re missing a grand opportunity to understand what’s going on in your community.

    We cannot learn what makes people tick by listening to speeches that are not their own.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • cofty
    cofty

    Marvin - Of course we need to know what people think. A graduation is not the time or place.

    He was a silly boy.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    -

    “Marvin - Of course we need to know what people think. A graduation is not the time or place.”

    Listening to a speech that is not owned by the speaker is a colossal waste of everyone’s time. It doesn’t matter the occasion.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    Hearing someone say that Christianity is what helped them is a waste of time to me.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    You know it would be one thing if the kid had talked about his faith and how it helped to achieve academically, but what he did was to deceive the people in charge of the program and give a prayer, something that is not appropriate in a public school. So how is lying and deceiving promoting Christianity? Also what is important to note is that he suffered no disciplinary action for it, which doesn't play into the supposed persecution of Christians that Whiskey Sam was bemoaning (right before he realized he is in the majority and can do to others what he was previously whining about others doing to him.).

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Marvin,

    Do you want to discuss the Ten Commandments in the public place with me? I know the cases forwards, backwards, sideways, and diagnonally. In fact, I attended conferences and spoke with the lawyer who argued the case before the U.S. Supreme Court.

    People like you strike me as ignorant in this matter. Your blogs show a keen, intelligent mind so I am confused. There are at least three different versions of the Ten Commandments in scripture. The Jews have one version, Catholics yet another, and the Protestants another. The differences are not minor. Profound theological issues are posed by the wording of the actual text of the commandments. I thought there was only one version. Not wanting to rely on a Supreme Court justice's words, I went to a public library and looked myself.

    Three different versions. I am pressed for time. If you still want to discuss how important the Commandments are in America, please let me know. I have access to the two opinions. Posting which version is offical and which one is Jewish, Catholic, or Protestant would make a great teaching example for my point. I don't believe you can choose which version is which. Indeed, I might play Chinese menu and mix the results even more. For example, I might mix the text of the first commandment of X version, with the text of the second commandment of Y version.

    If these commandments truly serve the function you believe, you should easily identify the version that all Americans must believe. A majority of the justices said you cannot do so. Only very limited displays are const'l and the actual text must be blurred. Please read the First Amendment. No fancy education is needed. It says what it says.

    I respect your feelings. Of course, one time I felt Paul McCartney should marry me. I am glad I did not hold my breath. Anyone can feel or deeply believe something that is wrong. We are human. The Ten Commandments are an important part of our cultural heritage. There is nothing remotely American about them. They are not American but Middle Eastern. The America you cherish ceased to exist around 1789. Fewer and fewer Americans are Christian. Personally, I become enraged whenever I hear the Spanish language option. My family came here not speaking English. It seems fundamentally unfair that there is not a French, Polish, Mandarin, Cantonese option. I want to start a product boycott. Well, let them speak only Spanish and never learn English. What does it do for them? Contrast their lives with the lives of Chinese and Russian people who learn English. Sometimes the times change. Must I quote Bob, again.

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