by wizzstick 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Well JW's invoke the concept of "True" Christians and hold that there were very, very few of them from about the end of the 1st century on.
Of course, forgot that. But how could 144,000 (!) Christians die in Egypt alone from persecution and not be considered true Christians?
Stunning.
TD!!
I just understood what you said a few minutes ago. Ohhh, my head.. There is only Christians, either Jewish converts or Gentiles. There are only the little flock, and the other sheep! There cannot be other sheep and then a great crowd of other sheep! So if you are a JW and you don't live to see the GT and survive it, then you could not have been of the " Great Crowd " per WT theology, because to die means you were not of the GC!!
For it to work, the WT must have at least three classes:
1) 144,000 / little flock
2) other sheep ( all who have died without a heavenly hope EXCEPT those who live through the future GT )
3) Great Crowd ( those who live to see the GT and survive it)
I think I have it clearly in mind. The WTBTS actually teaches that there are at least 4 classes of Christians. Also, now that the nu-light is released about the " domestics " it gets even worse. Now there are:
1) Domestic/FDS ( when in collective form/ with Christ as mediator )
2) Domestic anointed ( Christ is their mediator )
3) Domestic non-anointed ( No mediator )
4) Domestic non-anointed GC ( no mediator )
So what happens to all those who died before Christ and those who die before the GT? Head...hurting..must..drink beer....
The book of revelation was written in signs and symbols. The WT has talked for years about that point. Except for some reason the number 144,000 is not. It is literal. If it was written in signs and symbols then all of it is symbolic not literal. So if it was me don't worry about 144,000 number or great crowd. Instead try to be the best you can be while on earth. Whaterever the future holds for us. It is all out of your hands. Only the now can we control. The WT has screwed up so many minds with their nonsense. Totally ADD
I am still confused.....
Jw's will say that you can be one of the " other sheep " but not necessarily of the GC. Won't they?! You are saying that " scripturally " there is no GC of " other sheep." Still, JW's claim that there is. Once they make that claim, you have the conflict mentioned above.. So all those people who stood up at the landmark convention with Rutherford at the helm were....who? Just other sheep somehow existing apart from the " other " [ other sheep] of the GC of [ other sheep ].
Oh god, I am done.. more drinky..
Do you find at times WTBTS false doctrines stressful.
What about the multitude that listen to Jesus.
What about when he said he is the manna from heaven. Talking to the multitude.
It was a mixed multitude, and Hebrew turned their backs! The WTBTS reject the Great Crowd and refused eternal life for many.
They might have rejected eating his manna,flesh and blood,later they could have said we did not understand.
WTBTS probably thinks Hebrew 12 is just for the annointed.
My friend told me a joke. It is old as the 1982 doctrine.
A man dies and meets an angel. The angel shows him heaven with all the different doors. Inside one door people are dancing and having a good time,singing. Next door are some different chuches members, Gentiles and Hebrews enjoying each others company.
The next door way off by it self, The angel looks at the door and said, "shhhhhhh and opens the door'"
The man whispers,"Who are those people?"
Angel said that they are the Jehovahs Witnesses and they think they are the only ones up here.
TotallyADD,
You are right, of course.
What year was it that there were over 90,000 partakers at the memorial? (144,000-90,000 = 54,000 for the previous 1900 years)
*** w61 12/1 p. 721 par. 38 United Against Nations in the Valley of Decision ***
That year (1925) the number who participated in celebrating the Memorial of Christ’s death as members of the remnant was reported as 90,434. (The Watch Tower, Sept. 1, 1925, page 263)
The end did not come in 1925 and many left, partakers around 25,000 by 1928 but started rising.
1925 Effect (at a time when all WTS members were anointed)
32,661 in 1922
42,000 in 1923
62,694 in 1924
90,434 in 1925 (I bet that number surprises you)
89,278 in 1926
88,544 in 1927
23, 988 (44,080) in 1928
52,465 (63,416) in 1935
39,225 in 1938
***w60 5/1 p.282 par.22 Part3 7—"Your Will Be Done on Earth"***
During this period Jehovah God helped his people to wait or endure, carrying on his Kingdom preaching on a widening scale. This resulted in bringing into the sanctuary many more to be members of this remnant consecrated by Jehovah. This was evident from the increasing attendance at the annual celebrations of the Lord’s evening meal, 32,661 participating in 1922; 42,000 in 1923; 62,696 in 1924; and 90,434 in 1925. Evidently, however, there were some who did not ‘wait’ till the end of the announced time, for in 1926 there was a reported decrease in the attendance on March 27 at the Lord’s evening meal to 89,278.
***w55 6/15 p.366 Part12—An Era of Prophesied Happiness Begins***
For this year of 1927 the number in attendance at the spring Memorial internationally was 88,544, yet of these only some 18,602 were active as house-to-house Kingdom announcers.
***kj chap. 17 p.319 par.17 A"Garden of Eden" for the Sake of His Name***
In the year 1928 there were 44,080 of the remnant who were reporting an active part in the proclamation of the good news of Jehovah’s Messianic kingdom.
***w68 1/1 p.14 par.26 How Great a Witness?***
By the year 1928 as a result of the use of numerous methods to advertise the kingdom of God many people had listened and were fleeing from Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. Throughout the world there were now, on an average, 23,988 Christian witnesses of Jehovah engaging in the preaching work from house to house every month in 32 countries.
***w99 2/1 p.17 par.16 Our Treasure in Earthen Vessels***
But in 1935 there was a worldwide total of 52,465 publishers, out of a peak of 56,153, who indicated their heavenly hope by partaking of the Memorial emblems.
***w99 2/1 p.18 Our Treasure in Earthen Vessels***
In 1938 the worldwide Memorial attendance was 73,420, with 39,225 persons—53 percent of those present—partaking of the emblems.
They are making it up as they go along *jazzhands*
Of course, a few whacky doctrines wouldnt matter - most religions have them - but you are under pain of disfellowshiping if you disagree with any of this and talk to other witnessess about it.
Jw's will say that you can be one of the " other sheep " but not necessarily of the GC. Won't they?!
Yes. They will say that. But they would be dead wrong and that shows you how just little most JW's know about their own religion. JW theology only allows for that possibililty as a quirk of fate (i.e. Someone with the earthly hope who dies prematurely)
There are only two salvific destinies for Christians:
"They also discerned that the Bible holds out two destinies—a heavenly one for the 144,000 anointed footstep followers of Christ and a paradise earth for an unnumbered “great crowd” of “other sheep.” (Revelation 7:9; 14:1; John 10:16) (The Watchtower May 15, 1995 p. 18)
First, Jesus gathers an anointed “little flock” who become joint heirs with him in the Kingdom of the heavens. (Luke 12:32) After this, “a great crowd” are gathered to survive “the great tribulation,” coming out of it to inherit everlasting life in the realm of God’s Kingdom on earth.—Revelation 7:9, 14-17. (The Watchtower, January 1, 1995 p. 4)
"Other Sheep" apart from the "Great Crowd" would fall into neither of those two categories.
The Great Crowd are Other Sheep who live during the Time Of The End:
"But on May 31, 1935, in a discourse given at a convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Washington, D.C., U.S.A., it was Scripturally explained that the “great crowd” (“great multitude,” King James Version) refers to the “other sheep” who live during the time of the end." (The Watchtower, February 15, 2003 p. 19)
"Those of the other sheep gathered in the time of the end will make up the “great crowd” destined to survive “the great tribulation,” with the prospect of living forever on a paradise earth." (The Watchtower, February 1 2002 p. 21)
Finally, in 1935 the other sheep living during the time of the end of this system of things were recognized as being the great crowd seen in vision by the apostle John. (Isaiah's Prophecy Volume II 2001 p. 255)
In a stirring talk on “The Great Multitude,” delivered to about 20,000 conventioners, J. F. Rutherford presented Scriptural proof that the modern-day “other sheep” are identical with that “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9. (John 10:16) (The Watchtower May 15, 2001 p. 15
There were no "Other Sheep" in the Christian era prior to the "Time Of The End" because there was only the heavenly calling.
"For 19 centuries there was only the one calling, the heavenly one, with Jehovah being very selective as to who would serve with his Son to make up the Kingdom government. (The Watchtower, February 15, 1982 p. 30)
"For some 19 centuries after this there was only one calling, the heavenly one. It was an undeserved kindness that God bestowed on a limited number in furtherance of his own wise and loving purposes.—Eph. 2:8-10." (United In Worship 1983 p. 111)
Td, there are 3 (three) groups in Rev. 7 plus the angels.
1) the twelve tribes of the ISRAEL OF GOD.-- Israel always on the EARTH.
2) the 12x12 000 that come OUT OF the 12 tribes, martyred like Jesus, close to him in heaven, 144 000 SEALED, not anointed.
3) the great Crowd that comes OUT OFF, -not through- the Great Tribulation.
THere was only one Christian hope, EVERLASTING LIFE through the new covenant for all. BUT:
How this HOPE will be realized, is God's, Jesus', the sealing angel's business. not our's,-- like forcing the angels hands by partaking. -- or not.
Most Christian, Jew or Gentile (other sheep), partakers all, billions, will not be sealed to be martyred to be mentioned in Rev:14, to have instant immortality, but
will have everlasting life. lets wait to see where. --------- (if the talking snake is real)
In other words the the non-sealed 12 spiritual tribes existed since JESUS himself.
to use wt terminology, interpretation of the word, the "other sheep", non-144 000ers, existed since the beginning of the sealing, before Stephen, the food distributor to the widows.
