The antidote to the myth that JWs are declining (page 15)

EdenOne

their primary growth method - having children .

But that brings up another issue. The rate of retention of those children within the org. I suspect it's sharply decreasing.

Eden

punkofnice

What ever happened to: ''Responsible child bearing in this time of the end?''

New light(TM)?

zound

I'm technically 'inactive' for 8 years (though not for much longer) am I still included in the WT stats?

In my sibling's congregation, the method of gathering hours from 'stray' (i.e., back-sliding, low meeting attendance) attendees is 'creative' to say the least - and does not reflect too soundly on the 'integrity' of what it 'means' to be counted as an active publisher.

The elder in charge of the reports (do these report-gathering guys have an official title for such an awesome job?), casually approaches the 'strays' when they bother to show up for a meeting, asking them to estimate their hours and other activities for a specific time period (e.g., consecutive months).

The elder doesn't ask the strays, have they gone out witnessing in that time period; instead he asks them to estimate, assuming they have. He must have a good understanding of human nature because if people simply assume you've done something, they leave room for you obligingly agreeing - even if you haven't.

My lovely sibling, who will remain anonymous,obliges by estimating 4 to 6 hours for the designated time period. The hours are duly recorded next to their name and, bingo, they officially remain an active JW.

My sibling has wryly noted to me on more than one occasion that they haven't witnessed for years (okay they still believe it's the truth but that's another story). They also claim they are not the only one 'obligingly' estimating their hours when they haven't seen a territory map for years.

How do they get away with it? How does the elder? Don't ask me. I suspect the body of elders know - but cannot be certain. Ask that creative elder whose primary purpose seems to be to beef up the numbers so that the CO will get off his back. Whatever his motivation, under the less than rigorous circumtances of gathering data for their reports, the whole creativity of the approach makes sense to me. Far be if for me to pass judgement on this practice.

slimboyfat

Aren't they afraid of being struck down by Jehovah?

Crazyguy

I think the amount of hours they have to spend to get a convert is the most telling. Some thing like 7500 hours and 32 bible studies to get one convert and that includes born ins. Its really sad when i look around at all the older ones in the hall that are just pathetic wondering why the end has not come yet. One just came to my house a couple of days ago, shes becoming desperately optimistic that the end is very close.

steve2

Aren't they afraid of being struck down by Jehovah?

Underneath it all, I'd say yes, because that sibling says pointedly to me that as bad as things get in the organization they still believe it is the truth. I have perfected the art of the neutral gaze and the deft change of topic.

Let's just say, I know what to say (and not say) to keep my family 'together'- it means I get a bit of a bonus of a window inside and it's very revealing about the 'quality' of modern-day witnesses - but hardly earth-shattering. I love my family more than I love to risk losing them (as lukewarm as they are) by pushing them to think too much about a lot of stuff they do that strictly speaking goes against the organization, including (at least) one member faking the hours and the others still having family times with me - in that regard my now-deceased JW mother made it clear to everyone, disfellowshipped or not, I remained her son and she would never shun me (elders backed off - she was a fiercesome lady at times but otherwise quite sweet).

Phizzy

I think the creative, fictional, hours thing goes very deep, so certainly as a statistic the preaching hours published by the WT are worthless.

Sadly this means that in reality it takes far less time than it seems to make a convert. Having said that I personally know many JW's who have never made a convert, some of them have spent a lifetime going from DtoD. What a waste.

Sort of back on topic, a pertinent modern parable. I observed a tree being felled near to the entrance of a local school, I hate to see trees go if it isn't necessary, and the thing looked healthy to me, lots of leaves etc but once felled you could see it was rotten inside to a huge and dangerous extent, thank goodness it was felled before it fell on the pupils.

I think the above thread proves that, evident decline or not, the JW/WT religion is rotten from the inside, and like the tree, from top to bottom.

Shador

I think the amount of hours they have to spend to get a convert is the most telling. Some thing like 7500 hours and 32 bible studies to get one convert and that includes born ins.

One of those rare occasions when I feel like quoting the Bible:

Matthew 23:15 - "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

prologos

phizzy, tree illustration, good point, but it can be as misleading as the use of faithful slave fable as wt GOVERNING B justification.

In Josemite CA national park is a sequoya, smaller than in Sequoya N.P that is totally burned out inside but alive and well, hundreds of years old.

It would fall less hard then the massive ones further south.

The past of the tree is in the inside.

Could wt fall because of its past, they are trying to fix it. but

the WT past is exposed HERE as to be hallow, not substantial, more like PITH, full of "hot air".

The outer rings the cambrium get bigger ever year, although uneven and more closely spaced, but:

once the sap, money, new blood members stops flowing, the life will ebb.

cut a notch around the perimeter of the trunk of a tree to stop the sap and the tree is doomed.

Any sappers at work ? wt trunk circumsicion?

The antidote to the myth that JWs are declining

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