Dont read too much into stats..
The antidote to the myth that JWs are declining
by slimboyfat 153 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Vidiot
?everything - "Dont read too much into stats.."
Esp stats from the WTS?
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
What is disturbing to me is that the increases, though modest, are still increases. JWs have to be one of the more meticulous religions out there in only counting as members those who still actually attend services regularly. And not only that, but you need to actively preach for them, otherwise you fall off the member rolls. Contrast that with someone who was baptised as a Catholic in São Paulo in 1972. This person doesn't even have to enter another church for 40 years, and guess what? They are still counted among Brazil's 123 million Catholics. All they would need to do is self-identify as such. I'd be curious to see the real numbers on all the various Christian sects if they used the same criteria as the JWs use and wonder how it compares to the worldwide JW numbers.
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5go
When is increasing numbers considered a decline?
When you can't keep up with the birth rate. That describes the current state of JWism to a tee!
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therevealer
somebody mentioned the berlin wall - the gray heads dieing off will be the berlin wall for the witlesses.
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Vidiot
Maybe so, but what will follow?
Progressive reform? They'd arguably no longer be Jehovah's Witnesses.
Increased authoritarianism? The ideological corners they've spent the past few decades painting themselves into (not to mention the shrillness of the most recent rhetoric) make it vitually inevitable.
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Stealth
Regardless if it's pubs fudging numbers or the WT fudging numbers, the stats they publish can't be trusted.
More important is that more and more are becoming mentally free.
Once mentally free the donation$ stop. I know they did in my case.
The lack of $ coming in is what will drive the decline of the WT. We are already seeing it with the quality of the spirutal food coming out.
From that perspective, the decline has started.
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besty
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steve2
SBF, I have long said that your use of stats is fine and that I broadly agree with your handling of these. It is your specific conclusions from these stats that I have tended to disagree with as my responses to you have long shown. It is hardly "news" that we broadly agree...although, ever the obliging bloke that I am, I can muster a cautious preparedness to say, "Thank you for opening my eyes and helping me see we have more in agreement".
I am always open to clarifying what I have said previously because it is evident that from time to time that you appear to misconstrue the specific points I make.
On the question raised by some of whether it matters whether they grow, decline or flatline the answer is, it depends. The organization itself makes a very big deal out of any indications of growth no matter how seemingly trivial. This discussion has never claimed to be of breath-taking importance but it does attempt at several levels to look at the whole question of growth. It follows "naturally" or "artificially" (depending on your bent) from the Watchtower's own self-interested clutching of numbers to use as one further strand in its arrogant assertion that, while the "Churches of Christendom" are in decline, Jehovah's organization is prospering. And witnesses almost mindlessly trot out this mantra with little if any prompting. Is it earth-shattering they do so? No. Can I live with them doing so? Of course I can.
In the larger scheme of things, I can respond to the exasperated queries of some of "Does it matter whether or not they're growing?" by replying, If it doesn't matter to you, that's easily fixed. Reduce your time spent reading this sort of thread. But if it does matter to you at whatever level it suits you, fine. Numbers and their meaning happen to appeal to me.
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cedars
I have to agree wholeheartedly with the title of this thread. JWs are most certainly not declining. In fact, they increased last year by a whopping 1.9%! That's the miracle of birth for you. Praise Jah indeed.
That said (and without wishing to post off-topic) downsizing of the Watch Tower Society and its affiliates is another matter entirely and can be proven - unless the closing or "merging" of branches globally and halving of magazine printing commitments is just my imagination.
Reasons for the downsizing will always be speculative, but the fact that publisher growth is mostly found in poorer countries without low internet connection is, in my opinion, a big clue.
Just my 2 cents!
Cedars
