Design or Non-Design, finally we know, Darwin's Doubt

by QC 371 Replies latest jw friends

  • cognisonance
    cognisonance

    You want to tap dance your way through this Evolution debacle with bluster bluffing that ‘there’s all this evidence.’ Nice try, but unconvincing.

    I haven't convinced you becuase you have to research the facts for yourself. I've just given you some starting topics to look into. If you are interested in looking at the available evidence please read a book that focuses on the emperical facts, such as Why Evolution is True. If you go to the amazon link, you can use the "look inside" feature (click on the picture of the book) to read a bit before deciding to by the book.

    Nonetheless, I bring up human chromosome 2, which I don't remember if that book talks about it or not. Apes, such as the chimp, have 24 non-redundant chromosome pairs. Humans have 23. If evolution is true and both apes and humans share a comon ancestor, then why do human only have 23 pairs of chromosomes? It's not like we could have just dropped one pair and not expect great damage being done.

    So what did the evolutionary theory predict? That either the original ancestor had 23 pair and the other apes had one pair that broke into two, or that the original had 24 pairs and humans had two pair fuse into one. What did they find out when the examined the chromosomes of chimps and humans? This:

    Take a look at the banding pattern (think of this as a finger print of sorts that identifies chromosomes, which is achieved with a staining procedure). The picture shows human chromosome 2 and chimp chromosomes 2a and 2b. Notice how similar the patterns are? Look at the two chimp chromosomes. They both have a centromere (found somewhere in the middle) and two telomeres (think of these as end caps if you will). The human chromosome has an extra centromere and the remains of two telomres also somehwere in the middle (in addition to the two at the ends). This is also supported by actually sequencing the dna and comparing the A, C, T, or G bases.

    The simpliest explanation is that the common ancestor had 24 chromomes and humans had two of them fuse together. The evidence confirms what evolutionary theory would predict. If you are interested in reading the science about this, here is one paper: Origin of human chromosome 2: An ancestral telomere-telomere fusion.

    If evolution never happened, then how would you explain how humans have two chromosomes that appear to have been fused together to create one big one, and this fused chromosome matches up with two smaller ones found in chimps?

  • cognisonance
    cognisonance
    Evolution is not science; it’s an ideology (an alternate secular world view, a philosophy).

    False Dichotomy (it's not accurate to say evolution is either science or it's an ideology). It's not that black and white. It can be both. When people talk about evolution they can mean, usually, one of two things:

    • The science of evolution. This we have both the what (facts showing life today is different than in the past, and that life today has shared a common ancestor) and the how(such as the theory of natural selection and the scientific method involved to see if this theory holds water - that is to say, making predicitons, testing hypothesis, writing papers, peer review, sequencing DNA, examining fossils, biogeography, and other evidence, etc.)
    • Popular Evolutionism. To quote the philosopher of science, Michael Ruse:

    "First, if the claim is that all contemporary evolutionism is merely an excuse to promote moral and societal norms, this is simply false. Today's professional evolutionism is no more a secular religion than is industrial chemistry. Second, there is indeed a thriving area of more popular evolutionism, where evolution is used to underpin claims about the nature of the universe, the meaning of it all for us humans, and the way we should behave. I am not saying that this area is all bad or that it should be stamped out. I am all in favor of saving the rainforests. I am saying that this popular evolutionism—often an alternative to religion—exists. Third, we who cherish science should be careful to distinguish when we are doing science and when we are extrapolating from it, particularly when we are teaching our students. If it is science that is to be taught, then teach science and nothing more. Leave the other discussions for a more appropriate time." Science 7 March 2003: Vol. 299 no. 5612 pp. 1523-1524

  • Captain Obvious
    Captain Obvious

    Lol how is this thread still going?

    QC has been so hard headed and ignorant throughout this and other threads, there's no hope of him backing down now, even though he's clearly wrong.

    Hey QC, where's the earth-shattering effects of this book's having finally disproved evolution? Because... If evolution is wrong, we have to rewrite most of the work that has been done in several fields in the past few decades. We'll have to take many medicines off the shelf, scrap all biology textbooks and glad material... Basically start all over again. Understanding and proving evolution helped us as a race understand so many things, i.e. germs/viruses and has saved millions of lives.

    You are asking for soft tissue fossils from billions of years ago.. Not gonna happen, sorry. Effectively what you are doing in this discussion is ignoring a mountain of evidence against you, then asking for evidence that does not and will not exist, claiming that it is necessary to prove you wrong. You are IGNORING (are ignorant of) a huge amount of evidence which is as valid as the day it was presented.

    You cannot win, you are making a fool of yourself.

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    bumped to research, have been away and haven't read it all yet.

  • mP
    mP

    I think its fair to say that Darwin was honest enough to admit he didnt know everything and thats what makes him great. The greats know they dont know everything so they keep thinking and searching. This is unlike the christian morons who know next to nothing about any science and yet they confidently tell you the facts. Smart people know their limitations, idiots think they know it all.

    Darwin was one of the intellectual giants, thank god he came along.

  • mP
    mP

    @cog

    So what did the evolutionary theory predict? That either the original ancestor had 23 pair and the other apes had one pair that broke into two, or that the original had 24 pairs and humans had two pair fuse into one. What did they find out when the examined the chromosomes of chimps and humans? This:

    mP:

    Are you really qualified to examine dna and know the differences ? I dont know enuff to comment either way and im pretty sure neither do you. Taking advice or commentary from biased sources is completely dishonest.

  • mP
    mP

    @JohnMann

    So the languages did not evolved too? Was just a poof in Babel's Tower?

    My dear, evolution is everywhere. Not in biology, but in linguistics, economics, cosmology and computing, to name a few.

    mP:
    THe funny thing is the previous chapter of gen (10 i think) mentions different peoples speaking diff languages. This is just another example of a stupid lame story invented to explain what the ancients didnt understand. its about as reliable as their demons cause sickness, therefore all sick people must have worshipped satan or something. Its completely stupid to think anyone would want to worship Satan if the eventual reward was some terrible disease. Its about as intelligent as sticking your head in a fire, if the cause and effect is so obvious.

  • mP
    mP

    cog:

    You do realise that your argument is basically the one that muslims also use. Does that make Muslims right ?

  • mP
    mP

    QC

    If you want to read the definitive explanation on fossils and how life arrived it’s covered in Darwin’s Doubt, by S.C. Meyer.

    This is a game changer.

    The bomb

    MP:

    If you believe in a creator do you believe he actively wrote the bible ? Do you really believe he wrote all the terrible laws in the Torah ? Laws like genocide, slavery, racism, human sacrifice, etc.

  • QC

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