"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

by Alive! 160 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • flipper
    flipper

    BROTHER JERAMY- Whether you want to recognize it, or however you want to whitewash it ; you ARE under the influence of WT cult mind control. The fact that you are trying to teach some " newer " JW's that they can play the game of appearing as Witnesses and yet be insincere about the beliefs of the Witnesses really puts you on par with the insincerity of the GB of whom some of them really don't believe their own BS. Where's the difference between you and them ? The very fact that you feel that you have some special entrusted powers to baptize somebody yourself is an indication that you seem to be under the impression you have special powers connecting you to the alleged "holy spirit " and even are creating your own cult within the JW cult calling it " Family " .

    Why not just make a clean break and fade as an inactive JW and pursue your own beliefs without having to be divided with your time, energy, and efforts ? You still give the appearance of supporting the WT Society by going out in service- thus they still control you. Especially if you are sitting at their mind indoctrination meetings- the WT rhetoric will still bleed into your neurotransmitters in your brain. It's in your subconscious you just won't admit it

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon

    The problem, Brother Jeramy needs to be deprogram.

    He still believe Jehovah selected this organization and it is the

    truth. You need to listen to Satan, he will set you straight.LOL

    Seriously, Brother jeramy is straddling that proverbial fence and that

    my friend can make you go kooky.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Oh! I get it; Knorr was a Hypocrite for fulfilling a legal requirement to travel back then. So because he was a witness, Mark 12:17 didn’t apply. So what your saying is Clergy need to be like you, OUTLAWS. So any Clergy that travel are Despicable/Hypocritical Leaders regardless of having to satisfy any legal requirements. Well can’t argue with that philosophy thanks for clearing that up...... SimonSays

    JWs aren`t allowed to Pledge Allegiance..

    Knorr did what no other JWs were allowed to do..

    Nothing was special about Knorr as a JW,other than being a Hypocrite WBT$ JW Leader..

    Knorr broke WBT$ Rules,when it was Convenient..

    .

    http://www.nlc.tv/Websites/nlc2011/images/Portsmouth/hypocrite.jpg


  • RoyalFlushPhil
    RoyalFlushPhil

    Outlaw he's ducking and dodging the question and proof you showed him, it's classic JW Argument tactics, I really am surprised he did not tell you "I will go research this topic and come back to your house with satisfying answers explaining a good reason why we did this!" The Classic line JWs use when they know their stuck or feel this householder is too smart so they go looking for Joey the Janitor whose about to go to sleep and get some Field Service time. He's using the same reasoning done for the "Cartilla' and the official line why the Watchtower joined the United Nations, they said 'we had to join the UN so we could gain access to their library!"

    We were told not perform the Flag Salute! Never because as Jehovah's Witnesses we don't pledge our allegiance to anyone but Jehovah God, under no circumstances would we put our right hand over our heart or sign anything Outlaw posted! How can you say the Watchtower's Twisted Scriptures that change so often have any foundation in those books that remained constant for close to Two Thousand Years now! Some Hebrew Books of Moses date back almost 3600 years and they don't change like Watchtower's Play-dough doctrines some which have caused people to die, others left the bulk of the Witnesses in Poverty without any means of support. The Watchtower is responsible for all their members who are begging off the kindness of the Tax Payers to pay their way because they did not pay any taxes in to the Government (Circuit Overseers who head down to the Social Security Administration need to be told "Go to Hell, you never did any good for this World, you get $600 from the Watchtower so beat it!).

    You find us a Kingdom Hall that treated everyone equally (James 2) without judging each person's physical gifts such as money, skills and outward spirituality (1 Sam 16:7).. Why is the "churn rate" so high in this Organization if it had Jehovah's backing, the prophets said one day there would be a spiritual place bringing about change, men who would help locate the sheep and untangle weeds wrapped around them through Angelic help, the Angles would locate them while sound of Truth rung loudly waking them up!

    Romans 2

    2-15 He will punish sin wherever it is found. He will punish the heathen when they sin, even though they never had God’s written laws, for down in their hearts they know right from wrong. God’s laws are written within them; their own conscience accuses them, or sometimes excuses them. And God will punish the Jews for sinning because they have his written laws but don’t obey them. They know what is right but don’t do it. After all, salvation is not given to those who know what to do, unless they do it. 16 The day will surely come when at God’s command Jesus Christ will judge the secret lives of everyone, their inmost thoughts and motives; this is all part of God’s great plan, which I proclaim.

    17 You Jews think all is well between yourselves and God because he gave his laws to you;[c] you brag that you are his special friends. 18 Yes, you know what he wants; you know right from wrong and favor the right because you have been taught his laws from earliest youth. 19 You are so sure of the way to God that you could point it out to a blind man. You think of yourselves as beacon lights, directing men who are lost in darkness to God. 20 You think that you can guide the simple and teach even children the affairs of God, for you really know his laws, which are full of all knowledge and truth.

    21 Yes, you teach others—then why don’t you teach yourselves? You tell others not to steal—do you steal? 22 You say it is wrong to commit adultery—do you do it? You say “Don’t pray to idols” and then make money your god instead.[d]

    23 You are so proud of knowing God’s laws, but you dishonor him by breaking them. 24 No wonder the Scriptures say that the world speaks evil of God because of you.

    25 Being a Jew is worth something if you obey God’s laws; but if you don’t, then you are no better off than the heathen. 26 And if the heathen obey God’s laws, won’t God give them all the rights and honors he planned to give the Jews?27 In fact, those heathen will be much better off[e] than you Jews who know so much about God and have his promises but don’t obey his laws."

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2&version=TLB


  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    JWs aren`t allowed to Pledge Allegiance..

    You don't know what you are talking about

    JW Lawyers in the US and other JW in the US are required to take an oath ("of allegiance") to support the US Constitution.

  • kaik
    kaik

    SimonSays, again if you want to comment on something at least you should be familiar with some basic facts. Knorr was in Prague and Brno in 1947. This was in period after WWII and before communist takeover in Eastern Europe. Jehovah Witnesses were legal and such had protection under constitution. This was already the case in interwar period. Democracy attempted to flourish after war before Stalin decided otherwise in 1948. Catholic church had no whatsoever authority to ban any other religious group from worshiping. Strict separation of state and church existed for decades. When communists took power, they undermined all religions including Catholic Church (1950), Protestants (1951), Jews (1952-53), and later with JW (1954). JWs behind the Iron Curtain split because many stopped believing Knorr's BS. They were at least three different groups with thousands of followers. The biggest splinter group existed in Romania. Brooklyn did not get them under the control until 1990's.

    Any case, Jeremy parallel ministry along side WT is nothing new and existed 50 years ago. There were many JWs who had two baptisms and secretly partake because they were with one foot in Brooklyn and other in their parallel underground JW ministry. Double hypocrisy.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    You don't know what you are talking about.....Fisherman

    It took me only a few minutes to find this on the Official Watchtower "JW.Org" Web Site..

    It`s easy enough to find "Official Watchtower Information"..

    That makes "Loyal WBT$ JW Apologists" look like Liars/Idiots..

    I really don`t know why any of you bother.......The Result is Always the Same..

    .

    God’s Kingdom Rules!

    CHAPTER 14

    Loyally Supporting God’s Government and No Other

    The Issue of Nationalistic Ceremonies

    15. Why do Jehovah’s people refuse to join in nationalistic ceremonies?

    15 Jehovah’s people remain loyal to the Messianic Kingdom not only by refusing military service but also by respectfully declining to join in nationalistic ceremonies. Especially since the outbreak of World War II, a wave of nationalistic fervor has swept the globe. Citizens of many countries have been required to vow allegiance to their homeland by reciting a pledge, singing a national anthem, or saluting a country’s flag. However, we give our exclusive devotion to Jehovah. (Ex. 20:4, 5) As a result, we have experienced a flood of persecution. Even so, Jehovah has again used “the earth” to swallow up some of this opposition. Note just a few of the remarkable victories that Jehovah through Christ has granted us in this matter.—Ps. 3:8.

    16, 17. What issue did Lillian and William Gobitas face, and what have you learned from their case?

    16 United States. In 1940, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 8 to 1 against Jehovah’s Witnesses in the case known as Minersville School District v. Gobitis. Lillian Gobitas, * aged 12, and her brother William, aged 10, wanted to remain loyal to Jehovah, so they refused to salute the flag or recite the pledge. As a result, they were expelled from school. Their case came before the Supreme Court, and the Court concluded that the school’s actions were constitutional because they were in the interest of “national unity.” That ruling ignited a firestorm of persecution. More Witness children were expelled from school, adult Witnesses lost their jobs, and a number of Witnesses suffered vicious attacks from mobs. The book The Lustre of Our Country states that the “persecution of Witnesses from 1941 to 1943 was the greatest outbreak of religious intolerance in twentieth-century America.”

    it`s obvious you don`t have a clue what your WBT$ JW Cult teaches..

    I doubt your capable of finding the information on your own..

    So..

    Here`s a link to the complete article..

    On the "Official" WatchTower web site..

    CLICK THE LINK BELOW:

    ............Image result for Arrow pointing down

    Loyally Supporting God’s Government and No Other

    .

  • done4good
    done4good

    I'm getting the distinct impression that certain details of what I wrote have either been missed or are being deliberately ignored by a number of commenters here.

    So, before I offer any responses to some of the comments made, allow me to recap some key phrases from my post yesterday so as to reinforce the points I was making. I wrote . . .

    The abusive "shepherd" is not the "flock."

    The control [the Governing Body] exerts over the brothers and sisters is reprehensible, and several of its key theological doctrines are false and have misled and continue to mislead millions.

    The Governing Body and its Watchtower Society is not our "religion."

    The Family has been infected by a number of false teachings and has been wounded by the harmful control of the "wolf in sheep's clothing."

    Remaining with the Family is not the same as endorsing the Watchtower Society, just as remaining in solidarity with abused siblings (though they may suffer Stockholm Syndrome) is not the same as endorsing the abuser who abused them.

    I've noticed many here do not see (or perhaps refuse to see) a difference between the Watchtower Society and the people who collectively are the faith Family known as Jehovah's Witnesses. There is, in fact, a huge difference. By way of analogy, one (the Governing Body) is the "wolf in sheep's clothing," the other (the Family of brothers and sisters) is the "flock." They are not one and the same (any more than the Russian people under the tight control of the Kremlin during the Soviet era were one and the same; one was a "sheep" the other was the "wolf")..

    I've noticed that the term "organization" is employed by many here to refer to the "wolf" and the "flock" as a single entity, as if mutual partners in the commission of a crime. I reject that characterization outright, and for reasons that I already explained in my comments yesterday. It is why I rarely ever use the term "organization." Instead, I use the term "Family" to refer to the brothers and sisters as separate from the Governing Body and its Watchtower Society that has taken control over a large part of the Family (though not all of it, to be certain). It's vitally important to make a distinction between the two.

    Allow me to offer another analogy. We can liken the situation of the Witnesses under the control of the Governing Body to the Soviet Union era: the Russian people under the tight control of the Kremlin were not in willing collusion (at least not the vast majority of them) with the fascism under which they themselves were suffering. They were, in a very real way, captives. The Russian people are analogous to Christian witnesses of Jehovah as a faith Family. There was the Soviet Union, which is analogous to the Watchtower Society. It was operated by the Kremlin, which is analogous to the Governing Body. The population captive within the Soviet sphere of influence as a politically controlled group is analogous to "Jehovah's Witnesses." The communist/fascist ideology under which the people were politically controlled is analogous to the appellation "the Truth." Yet as a culture, the people were Russians, not Soviets. Their home was Russia, both historically and geographically. "Soviet" was an imposed political designation. When the Soviet Union fell, the people as Russians, though greatly wounded, remained.

    This is how I see the situation. Yes, many have escaped, and no doubt for good reasons. I do not blame them for this, nor do I disparage them for it. Yes, many of those escapees (though certainly not all) have become driven by a bitterness that blinds them to reason. Yet many, like myself, remain. In my case, it is by deliberate choice. Because the Family is my home and my culture; it is my "Russia." I do not support the Watchtower Society (the "Soviet Union") or its policies ("the Truth") under the control of the Governing Body (the "Kremlin"). As a dissident I work patiently from within, with my brothers and sisters. I will not abandon them, nor will I unfairly categorize them as being in collusion with the Watchtower Society as one "organization" willfully fomenting a crime of religious fascism.

    So, having recapped and reinforced my key points on this particular matter, I'll be back later to respond to some of the responses to my remarks from yesterday.

    BROTHER JERAMY


    Sorry Jeramy, but it is you that is missing the point. I recognize that you are new to this, and don't see it yet, but to state the most of us are missing or ignoring your points is nonsense. I am calling you on it. You are much too new to TTATT to get all of it. I have been a JW and out long long enough to know that.

    I understand why you are comparing the JW experience to Soviet Russia. I have some good friends that are Russian and grew up there in the Soviet era. While it is true that they were not allowed speak their minds openly, the level of thought control that goes with the JW experience was not there. They yearned for the freedoms most of us have. JWs actually think their "way of life" is better than most. Even if it is not the truth. Many JWs I know have said this.

    Since you think there is some "brotherhood" that actually was part of some form of "true" worship at one time, again I ask, (if you actually read my post), at what point did that way of worship become false? If that was not the intent of your statement, then I would have to ask why do you the JW are special? If you think they are, than it is you that is being somewhat arrogant. The JWs as a people are no better and no worse than anyone else. If you are hung up on this point, again I ask why?

    I know this post comes across quite blunt. I apologize for that in advance. My intent is to get you to think. The ex-JW community are not a bunch of angry disgruntled misfits as you have been told. We are human beings, along with the rest of the 7 billion on the planet. The JWs are nothing special. Just human, along with the rest of us. The GB, and whatever charlatans that existed before them that controlled the WTS, are nothing more than narcissistic individuals that actually believe they somehow had some special knowledge of how the universe operates, like all others that start a religion. No sane person would do such a thing.

    d4g

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    There is no way that I will ever read all these posts. The topic seems to have generated a lot of activity.

    Here is my take on the issue of maintaining a "relationship with Jehovah."

    I tried - I really did try. But what I found is that the relationship was one sided. If I exerted effort or if I did not exert any effort the response from Jehovah was the same. I got nothing in return for my effort or lack of effort.

    I used to pray regularly. I decided not to pray after a point of non-response from my repeated prayers. What I got from the other side of the relationship no matter what I did was the same - NOTHING.

    No longer am I interested in a one-sided relationship. So, if you think you have a relationship well then, god bless you. But I think that under a reasonable level of objectivity that you have a relationship, you are probably deluding yourself.

  • Brother Jeramy
    Brother Jeramy

    Alive, you asked . . .

    Have you also had an alternative baptism since coming to recognise the issues with being baptised to an organisation? ... Do you reject your initial baptism as a member of the JW org?

    No, I did not seek any kind of rebaptism. There is only "one baptism," and inasmuch as I ended up coming to reject the Watchtower Society's baptismal formula that I originally affirmed at my own baptism, I also know that Jehovah is not bound by human formulas. He knows each person's heart, including their intentions when they repent and are baptized. In my case, I prayed about the matter with faith that Jehovah is merciful and understanding, and with the confidence that my baptism, per the intentions of my dedication, remains valid before him.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit