Recent Global Cooling Controversy (page 12)

Jeffro

bohm:

For those that are interested on a more scientifically informed perspective

What? Even more informed than mP's 'fat people in the lounge' theory??

Jeffro

mP:

All i said in repsonse to Brinjen was she is feeling hotter only because her home is hotter due to tvs and more concerete thats all.

Brinjen, did he just call you fat?

adamah

Is anyone else bothered by the difference in zoom used between the two images, as if to overly dramatize the change?

I'm not saying the change in the ice cap change isn't real, it's just that the change is accentuated for the casual reader, since the image on the right is CLOSER (or more likely, more zoomed in). So at first glance, a viewer is only going to see "more white" without noticing the size difference in the other landmarks:

I'm wondering if this is yet another example of more willingness of journalists' willingness to doctor the evidence to downplay the effect of GCC....

Adam

Glander

I don't see the zoom effect. Both photos look proportionate. Using the greenish brown landmass as a reference point.

?

adamah

Jeffro posted this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

Climate change is a significant and lasting change in the statistical distribution of weather patterns over periods ranging from decades to millions of years.

mP:
So differences between one year is climate change and not weather. Looks like you cant tell the difference between climate and climate chance. Typical big mouth liar. Tells me weather which spans a year is not climate change and then goes and picks examples separate by 1 year as climate change.

Looks like you don't understand that climate change is NOT defined as the difference in weather over just "one year" (or a season, or even a day!), but over longer time-frames ("decades").

Adam

adamah

Glander said-

I don't see the zoom effect. Both photos look proportionate. Using the greenish brown landmass as a reference point.

Realize too that the photos are centered slightly differently, and hence comparing different areas, i.e. the image on the right actually shows more of the landmass to the Southwest of the ice cap.

But look at the penisula at the lower-left hand of the photo (which is a region common to both pix): the image on the right was taken when the satellite was CLOSER to the ice cap, as there's a noticeable difference in angle (parallax) when the image was captured. It's MUCH larger (I'd guess 10-20%), either via zoom or simply by being closer (i.e. more directly overhead). Hence the size of the ice cap on the right ALSO appears to be a bit larger, hence 'tweaked' via photoshopping and/or as a natural result of comparing dissimilar images.

Photo-analysts of satellite/high-altitude images who look at images all day long as their job are trained from Day One to consider and account for these types of factors, but laymen aren't. Hence pix can deceive, as well.

Adam

Jeffro

adamah:

Is anyone else bothered by the difference in zoom used between the two images, as if to overly dramatize the change?

There is no difference in the zoom at all. There is a slightly different rotation of the globe (but not actually a different center), however the changed aspect does not alter the relative size of the icemass.

Jeffro

adamah:

Looks like you don't understand that climate change is NOT defined as the difference in weather over just "one year" (or a season, or even a day!), but over longer time-frames ("decades").

I hope you're saying that to mP and not me (though you introduced a quote by me??). I quite clearly told mP that his assertion about weather within the same year is not 'climate'.

adamah

Jeffro said-

There is no difference in the zoom at all. There is a slightly different rotation of the globe (but not actually a different center), however the changed aspect does not alter the relative size of the icemass.

That's utter nonsense, since there is a difference (I just measured it on my screen), and the difference does alter the apparent size of the ice mass slightly, making it appear to be LARGER on the right image.

DON'T look at the ice mass, as most viewers are going to do. Instead, take a point on the landmass (green, say the tip of the penisula) in the lower RIGHT corner of one of the pixs and take another point (say, one of the brown islands) in the lower right corner of the same pix, and measure the distance between these two points on your screen. Now, measure those same two fixed points on the other image, and compare their distances.

There's a difference, where the SAME fixed distance on the pix on the right side is GREATER than the left image.

Those fixed locations obviously didn't move in one year, so that obviously means the picture on the right was taken with some combination of the following factors occurring:

1) a different zoom setting was used (greater zoom on the right pix)

2) image captured when the satellite was in a slightly different location, and hence a different angle/distance (closer to ice mass on the right pix),

3) the image on the right was blown up slightly, likely done to alter the size comparison and intensify the apparent increase of the size of the ice cap on the right (likely done to fit in with the article's agenda: to poo-pooh the effect of GCC, and make the ice cap on the right appear larger than it actually is).

Jeffro said-

I hope you're saying that to mP and not me (though you introduced a quote by me??). I quite clearly told mP that his assertion about weather within the same year is not 'climate'.

Relax: that's why I specifically stated that you (Jeffro) POSTED the wikipedia info, vs the usual attribution I do of saying you "SAID" this or that.

Regardless, mP apparently didn't bother to read the Wikipedia definition you posted, and being that he's made it absolutely clear throughout this thread that he HAS no idea of the time-frame climate change is studied (by saying it is detectable over the course of a year, season, or even a day!), it should be patently obvious that I was directing my comments to him, not you.

Adam

Jeffro

adamah:

it should be patently obvious that I was directing my comments to him, not you.

I kind of figured. But I didn't want it left unclear, particularly because mP has frequently tried to distort what I've said in the past.

Recent Global Cooling Controversy

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