Did Jesus really exist? (page 2)

cofty

My instincts are that there was a historical person behind all the myths.

The synoptics resort to all sorts of mental gymnastics to reconcile the historical Jesus with the messiah of OT prophecy. Look at the convoluted geography of the birth narratives for example.

Matthew and Luke both want Jesus born in Bethlehem because of the traditions connected with David's city. One account has him start in Nazareth and invents a census to get the family to Nazareth and then back up north a few days after the birth. The other account has his family living in Bethlehem and fleeing up north - via Egypt of course - because of King Herod.

None of this would have been necessary if he was invented out of "whole cloth".

I will look into the Carrier v Ehrman debate though.

gingerbread

I've been interested in this same question.

My understanding about religious characters and traditions have changed considerably over the summer after reading Joseph Campbell. Stories and persons that we may hold as Biblical are shared with many other cultures.

Stories exist about a divine son or daughter of the creator of the universe being born to a human being centuries before the birth of Christ - in cultures from Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

These same stories (or myths) contain many similarities to the life of Jesus : virgin births, 12 close associates, no bones broken at death, resurrection or return to 'heaven' three days after death, walking on water....

Some of these stories date back over a thousand years before the 1st century.

ginger

raymond frantz

@Lost Generation ,you seem to contradict 99% of modern historians that accept the fact the Jesus was a historical figure

adamah

In antiquity you either existed or you didn't

Nope: in fact, Darius the Great (circa 500BC) had to deal with at least NINE persons who CLAIMED to be some other royal leader as imposters (and garnered a local following in their countries), and even one who claimed his throne while he was away.

Why would the first 3 century Christians put them selves through persecution and violent death for a fabricated character?

You DO realize that none of the NT accounts are written by actual eyewitnesses, right, but were written at least 30-40 yrs later?

Bigger question is, why do Christians give their lives some 2,000 yrs later?

Adam

cofty

Why would the first 3 century Christians put them selves through persecution and violent death for a fabricated character?

How would anybody separate fact from myth 20 years after the events let alone 3 centuries?

I did some family history research a few years ago and discovered that some much-loved family stories that relate to events less than a century ago were mostly fantasy.

raymond frantz

The New Encyclopedia Britannica states that :"In ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadiquate grounds for the first time at the end of the 18th century"

External non Christian historians :Tacitus and Josephus

raymond frantz

@adamah ,imposters have been around since the begining of time (Satan the first ?) .I wasn't referring to that .I was referring to the fabrication of a character from historians .If Josephus is a liar and Tacitus is a liar then pretty much of what they wrote is lies and in extent you can't believe anything of what ancient historians wrote about anything !

LostGeneration

My argument isn't necessarily that he doesn't exist, its your assertion that there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for Plato or Alexander. There isn't.

If he existed, that's nice. Dirty hippies spouting false prophecy 2,000 years ago have no bearing on my life today.

raymond frantz

Not including Bible sources, the following people wrote about Jesus:
* The Jewish historian Josephus (A.D. 37-100)

*Pliny the Younger, imperial Roman Legate of Bythynia - in a letter to Emperor Trajan in A.D. 112

*Tacitus - the important Roman historian

*Suetonius - a Roman historian who compiled a biography of the first twelve Roman emperors in his "Life of Claudius"

*Thallus and Julius Africanus in A.D. 52

*Mara bar Serpion

In addition, there are thousands upon thousands of archaeological findings that point to Jesus existence.

cofty

there are thousands upon thousands of archaeological findings that point to Jesus existence.

Really? I can't think of any, what am I missing?

Did Jesus really exist?

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