43alley on Youtube has a great break down of this question by exploring the legend of Jesus.
Did Jesus really exist?
by slimboyfat 97 Replies latest watchtower bible
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raymond frantz
@ cofty "Baker Street really exists, I have walked along it dragging a suitcase. There was no sign of Sherlock"
out of context...
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designs
Did this Jesus really say those things about Jerusalem and the Jews or was this a political insertion. First you have to see how far off the mark of the Jewish Messiah this statement in the Gospels is and then go from there.
The Jews (who knew their messianic stories) rejected this particular person the way you would reject Mighty Mouse.
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LostGeneration
Is he the Son of God ?
If he is, he sure did a shitty job of leaving a legacy. I mean, write something down, make things clear, don't leave it up to that dickhead Paul to contradict you at every turn. The fact that this is even debatable is laughable if you are claiming this dude is all powerful. And as mentioned already, the false prophecy is unbecoming for the Son of God.
and what would happen to me if I deny him...
Nothing, just like nothing has happened to any single person who has died over the last 2,000 years.
Unless you are getting at the old "worship me or I will burn you forever and ever" defense. Because that works so well.
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cofty
No its not out of context. The fact that places and people from 1st century Palestine existed, tells us something about the context of the stories, but says nothing about the historicity of the central character.
It's a weak argument.
I am actually agreeing with you up to a point. I presented a much stronger argument above.
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Giordano
Mr Franz
"Regarding Alexander, there are writings by historians who were living at the time. These historians had no reason to be inaccurate. In fact their reputations depended upon the opposite. There are other documents and letters written, in some cases by individuals hostile to Alexander. In addition to writings, we have inscriptions on monuments, statues, and money. Finally, there are no extraordinary claims made about Alexander that call for “extraordinary evidence”. He had impressive accomplishments, but he never suspended the laws of nature. How does this compare to the situation with Jesus? Here we have: writings well after his death (Paul, the earliest New Testament writer circa 50 C.E.); all the writings have been crafted to serve a theological purpose; and clearly extraordinary claims (regarding the suspension of the laws of nature) that require extraordinary evidence." A yahoo answer
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raymond frantz
So the Jews are now the authority to tell me if Jesus is the Messiah ? The first century Jews crucified him for being a threat to their system !
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zound
It doesn't bother me if he existed or not, but it's interesting to hear both arguments.
The Jew's will say he's not the messiah - but they may say he existed.
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designs
Did the Jews really crucify Jesus or was that a made up story. Ask your local Rabbi about- 'Let his blood be upon us' and see (with an open mind) what the answer is.
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tenyearsafter
Regardless of which side of this discussion you land on, I find it very interesting that the Jesus being discussed is one of the only characters from that or any other time, that has persisted in being believed in as "real" and that this account continues to pass from generation to generation. I know that there are many discussions of similar "Christ stories" in other ancient cultures, but I personally can't speak to them (nor do I think the vast majority of people would know of them). I remember Leolaia doing an indepth piece on this subject, but I can't find the link at this time.
I guess the point of this is, how could such a mythical figure continue to exist to such an extent if he never existed? I know people continue to believe in Santa Claus, but that is a much newer "myth"...and I doubt anyone would be willing to die for their belief in Santa. I believe that Jesus was a real person, if based on nothing else but his "staying power"!