by Englishman 77 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Lilacs,
Your comment:
Besides, most that come here take jobs that no one else wants to do anyway.Isn't always true. My wife was laid off and a mexican was kept, who wasn't nearly as qualified as my wife for the job, but could speak spanish and worked for less money. My wife's brother is laid off as a brick layer because the mexican's will work for much less money. Just some real life examples.
Ken P.
Ken, you make a good point. A friend of mine who is an investigator for the INS (immigration Naturalization Service) often tells me that a foreigner may be kept over an American--get this--not because they 'work for less money' but--
because in their native countries they never had worker's rights and don't sue. Even for egregious violations!
Many farmworkers have fingers missing or have been exposed to toxic chemicals leading to the birth of retarded children. On the job accidents!! You know what they say? "That's ok!" They will not risk losing their job and never being re-hired just to file a report!!!
Jeff actually has to ENCOURAGE and INSIST that they file OSHA violations.
California recently enacted Farmworker Safety Laws that dictate a seat belt for anyone riding in the farm van. Why? Because the farm owners (mostly white guys) will pack about 30 Mexicans into a van (like stinkin' cattle) to ride to the worksite. More than once this has ended in tragedy.
* http://www.ca.gov/state/govsite/gov_htmldisplay.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1967296803.1019587579@@@@&BV_EngineID=cadcdlhliffdbemgcfkmchcog.0&sFilePath=%2fgovsite%2fpress_release%2f1999_09%2fl99174929.html&sCatTitle=Press+Release&iOID=11184&sTitle=Press%2bRelease+++
GOVERNOR DAVIS SIGNS FARMWORKER SAFETY LEGISLATION, EXTENDS UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS TO VICTIMS OF DECEMBER'S CITRUS FREEZESo it's not so much the fault of the laborer as it is the fault of the Employer who is looking to skirt Laws put into place to protect life and limb.SACRAMENTO—Governor Gray Davis has signed AB 1165 by Assemblyman Dean Florez, (D-Shafter), AB 555 by Assemblywoman Sarah Reyes, (D-Fresno), and SB 1011 by Senator Richard Polanco, (D-Los Angeles).
AB 1165 will improve the operational safety of farm labor vehicles through a variety of provisions. Beginning January 1, 2000, farm labor vehicles will be required to have seatbelts for all passengers, more information on registration cards, mandatory scheduling for safety inspections, provides $1.75 million from the Motor Vehicle Account for the California Highway Patrol to strengthen the enforcement of these provisions.
AB 555 requires the Labor Commissioner to provide the California Highway Patrol (CHP) with a list of all registered farm labor vehicles on a quarterly basis, extends the inspection liability for farm labor vehicles to vehicle owners and farm labor contractors and increases fines for violations of inspection requirements for farm labor vehicles.
The bill also requires the CHP, in cooperation with local farm bureaus, to educate farmers and farm labor contractors regarding certification requirements. AB 555 also provides that the willful violation of the provision relative to the operation of a vehicle that is operated as a farm labor vehicle would be a misdemeanor.
SB 1011 will extend the state unemployment benefits by 26 weeks to agricultural workers who became unemployed as a result of freezing conditions in December of 1998. It will also allow the Employment Development Department to calculate the base wages of future unemployment benefits for these workers based on the wages earned in the period prior to the freeze.
Governor Davis acted on these measures late Tuesday night.
Think Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" to imagine what types of conditions most people around the world work in.
Again, there are two sides to every issue.
Lisa
It might be said that things do come full circle. Countries get to be imperialistic.They colonize other parts of the planet, abuse the privilidge, get kicked out and then get "invaded" by the very people they had practically enslaved. One good example might be Colonial India. The straw that broke the camel's back was the issue of British salt for one, if I remember correctly. The Indians were forced for many years to buy British salt, and British salt only. Ghandi's march to the sea for salt was one turning point towards independence, not only politicaly, but culturally as well. I only mention the previous to emphasize irony. I also recognize that Indians are by far not the only immigrants at issue.
The US's long term aggressions with Mexico are another fine example. We pretty much took most of what are our southwestern states now....Oh and we Texans beat them up and took what we wanted too. Now one of the largest populations in the US is Hispanic, Latino, or Native Central/South American. Maybe its easier or less noticeable, because we, in the US, have more room to spread out and not annoy each other culturally as much.
On another note, I teach on the most diverse community college in Dallas. We have a significant foreign student population. This semester I have African, South American, Italian, Mexican, and Nepalese, for foriegn students. They all work very hard to understand, comprehend, communicate in English properly, and contribute like any good citizen/student must do. I like the sounds of other languages , listening to the cute Nigerian girls whispering to each other as I walk past, or a Nepalese discussion of programming language. I'm glad I can make all of that my heritage and my culture. It makes me a better person for sure.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
My main concern is that anyone who expresses reservations about immigration becomes labelled as a racist. Yet, nationalism is a part of our make-up, and if we feel that our own nationalism is being poo-poo'd by immigrants we become angry, so maybe immigrants need to be a little less insular generally, and accept the customs and language of their adopted country more readily.
I have mentioned before that her Ladyship and myself are intending to set up a business in Madeira. If we do so, we are determined to become fluent in Portuguese and work to become part of the community during the several months that we will be in residence each year. From past visits I know just how determined the Madeirans are to retain their new-found independence now that they are relinquishing their ties to Portugal, not for me the sheltered life of the ex-pat!
Englishman.
Valis,
A good point. Governments especially, reap what they sow.
However, it is the duty of any government to protect its borders. That is what armies are all about, and always have been.
The invasion of borders these days, may not always be by armed forces, but may be economic, social and even cultural. A government has a duty to protect its society of citizens, its economy and the culture that they have developed from being undermined by outside influences. If this happens, the national identity of a nation, such an important stabilizing force to it, can be damaged irreparably.
IMHO, the immigration policies of most of the Westernized nations work against its citizens interests, often due to a perception that democracy and 'political correctness' are the same thing. They are not. By all means have an immigration policy, but found it on common sense and a respect for the indigenous people of the nations, whichever one it may be.
Le Pen delivered a worrying message to all these Governments, when an ethnic 20% of the population commit 80% of the crimes it becomes noticed, and ‘political correctness’ is filed away on tomorrow’s ‘to do’ list.
Best regards - HS
Englishman, warning! Portuguese is one of the hardest languages to learn, but at least with Portuguese you will also be able to comprehend 85% or more of Spanish, but the reverse is not so if you only learned Spanish.
One nice thing about Madeirans is they are still like we were 50 years ago, quite a conformist society on the outside (they are 90% Catholics). And everyone looks the part, as they are some of the best dressed people you will ever see, and the island is usually spotlessly clean, and has a very low crime rate. Unfortunately for them poverty is a way if life for many, and many will spend their last penny on stylish clothes just to ‘look the part’ and go home with no food. Even the tramps are well dressed and polite, it’s true! You will love it if you go to live there, the climate is perfect all year, and you have the cool mountains if you get too warm in the summer. What kind of business are you thinking of starting there?
Nemesis,
Her Ladyship and I discovered Madeira some years back, now we tend to do lots of walking when we visit, last time we were enchanted by the 23 waterfalls at Rabacal which we found after a long levada walk.
We usually stay in Funchal at the Santa Isobel, its part of the Savoy but lots cheaper.
Here's a levada:
Englishman, cervejas, vache favoir!
No way does that make you a racist. One thing I loved about being in the U.S. Navy was going all over the world and seeing different countries and enjoying their customs and everything.
Far as coming into a country and not putting anything back into it I understand where you are coming from wholeheartedly as the U.S. sees plenty of that crapp. I don't like it however don't view myself as a racist either..
-Rick
Eman,
I think your view makes you not a racist, but reflects the thinking of a member of the dominant group/culture of his country/society.
A few of the biggest indicators of a group's acculturating into mainstream society are their view of that society; their reason for migrating to that country; their view of their own culture, etc. Of course, there are other factors but these are an important few off the top of my mind.
Now, if a group sees being in England as only a temporary financial means to an end, are not embraced by your society, and/or perhaps views their own culture as being superior to yours, chances are that they may keep to themselves and associate with the natives only to the extent necesary to survive in the new society. They could probably care less about what you think.
Experiencing a country's culture that you enjoy and chose to visit is not the same as living in a foreign country where the dominant culture looks upon you with disdain. I'd wager that if you heard there was an English village nearby in that environment that you would hasten to find it and live amongst your own.
Englishman dude, didnt you have a thread about some wheelchair dude complainin that you wouldnt give up your seat? First that, now race, yir justa skirtin da edge aintcha bro?
We call it Poh Lit ick lee incorrect here in the states. Careful, shhhhh, hussh.... Dont say that this or that group does this or that. Now if you are a member of those groups you can talk about your 'culture' and that you are different. But if anyone from the dominant group say so, well thats just racism. We've had a few interesting threads goin lately about these topics.
Since I've made my views very clear, I will just comment on a couple of issues yall over looked.
1...Puffsrule you live in Columbus? WTF? I had no clue. I'm in Cinci, and yall have the Dublin Irish festival comin up pretty soon. But dont think this means anything, you live too close for me to hit on. Now if you lived in california...hooooooooo doggie!
2...Is it me or is yrs2long like a TOTAL damned hottie? Now that pic might be some movie thing or something but who cares.
Ok I think that covers the important issues that yall overlooked so far.
Let's see, three wives, seven concubines, nine slave girls, and twenty-seven black nazi female body guards. I've only got forty-five women to go and my cult is complete
