Intimidation and the guilt associated with questioning or doubting "God's organization" has blinded JW's.
Witnesses believe that if they remain loyal to "God's Organization"they will never have to die!
They are "captives of a concept".
Stand For Pure Worship, what convinces you that the governing body is being used by Jehovah? Thanks.
by The Quiet One 110 Replies latest watchtower bible
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AnnOMaly
I'm not sure whether SFPW is for real as a JW defender, or whether he's one of us under a different name just trying to spice up the board. Anyway, here's my $0.02.
Claim: Jesus appointed a 'faithful and discreet slave' class in 1919.
Problem: At the time of the appointment in 1919, they didn't know Jesus had appointed a 'faithful and discreet slave' class. They already believed Jesus had appointed a 'faithful and discreet slave' many years earlier - Russell - and he had been so faithful and wise, he was made ruler over all the Lord's goods.
Jesus didn't correct them.
In 1927, they changed their minds and began to believe that all the anointed (Russell included) constituted a 'faithful and discreet slave' class and, because they had been found faithful and discreet in 1918/9 they, as a class, had been appointed over all the Master's belongings.
Jesus said nothing.
Several times every year, for 85 years, they would harp on about how the anointed remnant had been found faithful and discreet, were chosen and appointed over all Jesus' belongings and consequently, how they were instrumental in mankind's salvation, how they were God's sole channel of Truth, and therefore we should listen and obey them as we would Jesus and Jehovah.
All that time, Jesus let them spout on and on even though they'd got it so wrong.
Finally, in 2012 he gets around to correcting them and their long-held misconceptions about themselves - and only the current bunch because those of the original group are dead:
'No, you weren't appointed over all my belongings, you were only appointed to be over the domestics. No, I didn't appoint Russell or all of the anointed, I only appointed those anointed involved with writing the publications at the WBTS HQ. No, they never knew the truth about it and are gone from this Earth, but you've taken over now so I guess it means I appointed you too.'
Does it make sense to you, SFPW, that Jesus, as reigning King, would appoint a set of people for an historically momentous task and privilege yet a) not let them know about it at the time, b) not tell them exactly who was appointed, and c) not tell them what their real role and status were?
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EndofMysteries
SFPW - I once reasoned as you did. Your reply could have been very close to what I would have said.
However, Israel having a king over them was not the way it was supposed to have been. Remember 1 Sam 8:4-7,
In time all the older men of Israel collected themselves together and came to Samuel at Ra′mah 5 and said to him: “Look! You yourself have grown old, but your own sons have not walked in your ways. Now do appoint for us a king to judge us like all the nations.” 6 But the thing was bad in the eyes of Samuel inasmuch as they had said: “Do give us a king to judge us,” and Samuel began to pray to Jehovah. 7 Then Jehovah said to Samuel: “Listen to the voice of the people as respects all that they say to you; for it is not you whom they have rejected, but it is I whom they have rejected from being king over them."
Now what happened when Israel got their 'human' king? Time and again they would go bad and lead the entire nation into idolatry, etc.
When the "king" commanded and lead Israel into idolatry and Jehovah finally had enough, did he punish JUST the king? Did the Israelites say, "We are in your organization and we were being obedient to the king that YOU put in place." Did Jehovah say, o right, I'll just punish him? NO, they had no excuse.
Another question, what was the longest stretch of time or kings that ruled Israel before they would become corrupted again and corrupt the nation? Was Jehovah's organization ever for a very long period of time not corrupted if they had a good king and he died?
With those 2 line of thoughts, 1st, IF the governing body was appointed by Jehovah, as history shows they could go bad or corrupt, and the chain of succession is now Russel, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz, ?, ?? how certain are you that at some point in there the leadership didn't become corrupt like in ancient Israel? AND if they had, can you think of any scriptures in which you will be exempt from punishment if you just go along and without question do anything they ask?
If you actually read the scriptures both in the new and old testament, Jehovah gives plenty of warnings and ways to find out if somebody speaks for him or not and what to do in those situations.
Time and again we are told by the governing body to obey them and take what they say as from Jehovah himself. If they mess up they blame you for listening to them when they've told you they are imperfect men and not inspired. But then they turn around and say "by the way, you must obey us, your salvation is 100% on your faith and trust and following our instructions, and you can never understand the bible, nor get to jehovah except THROUGH US".
Does not Jesus say HE is the way, and any other way is a fraud?
All of the changes and complete reversals, the predictions for the end, etc, by the governing body through the years,
Duet 18:20-22 = However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’
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DATA-DOG
This video cannot be viewed enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeSPKydgIzU
SFPW,
You are welcome.
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The Quiet One
Look at his reaction here, I think he's been pulling my chain...
If so, I'm never posting on this site again. I've wasted hours of time and energy that I don't have enough of...
I won't be missed anyway.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/265329/2/Never-Become-Enraged-with-Jehovah-tomorrows-WT-Study-pure-vomit#.UlsGM118uo8 -
problemaddict
Hey Quiet one......whats up? Leave if you must, but every member of this community is valueable.
I think you might be jumping to conclusions.
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EndofMysteries
the quiet one - Look at how many views under your thread. That's why many reply to SFPW and 'lurkers'. It doesn't matter if he is a troll or not, and since these threads will be here forever, any lurkers or JW's who are having doubts, etc, they may see their own defenses or what they'd say asked by trolls and see the answers. So if he is a troll, he hasn't hurt you or anybody here, nor has anybody wasted their time, because the hundreds/thousands who read these threads, many may be still in JW's who are looking but not joining and getting some of their questions answered by threads like this.
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EndofMysteries
As of now, 1020 views. And a certain percentage ARE lurkers/and still active JW's.
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Laika
SFPW is 'No room for George' and 'Theocratic Sedition' he doesn't believe the Governing Body is being used by Jehovah. Check out his Theocratic Sedition account and you'll see he started as a JW apologist then until he eventually got found out.
Quiet one, I understand your frustration but your post is not a waste of time, there may be many lurkers who do believe the governing body is being used by Jehovah, and this thread could be helpful to them.
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EndofMysteries
TO SFPW - along w/ what quiet one posted, when you mentioned about being raised as a JW, as was I, here is something I strongly agree with that was actually published by the WT. It's a book called "The Time for True Submission to God" page 6
http://www.scribd.com/doc/5472988/The-Time-for-True-Submission-to-God
Page 6, "The need to search for the truth".
Says this....and I couldn't agree with it more!
" But do we deserve honor or credit for belonging to a religion that we received from our parents, if we have never done anything to check whether that religion is right or wrong? A man born in Italy would likely be born into a Catholic family, and he would grow up a Catholic. A man born in Burma would likely be of the Buddhist religion. If a man is born in a Muslim family, he will likely grow up as a Muslim. Surely all of this means nothing as to his submitting himself to God. It is purely an accident.
The man who truly surrenders himself to God is the one who carefully examines all aspects of the religion he was born into. If he finds it is true, he remains with it. But if he finds it is false, he sets out to find the true religion. Some find it hard to reason on the subject of religion. They are strongly convinced theirs is the right religion and no more discussion is needed.
In this, we may be a little like a fanatical supporter of a certain sports team. As you know, when a fanatical supporter watches his own team play another one, he supports his own, however badly it plays. If the opponents win, he may say that they cheated, or the referee was on their side, or something else happened. He thus ignores the good qualities of the other team, and all the bad qualities of his own. However, to see the true facts in a sports engagement, you have to be impartial. And this is even more so in the case of religion.
If our mind is captive to prejudice, we will never see the truth. Is it reasonable to say whether something is right or wrong before you have looked into it, or before you have even thought about it? Yes, we may have received our religion from our parents, and we respect our parents. We owe them much, and many of the things they have given us are very good. But that does not mean we have to accept everything they say without thinking. Our parents are human, as we are. They make mistakes, as we do.
In fact, many of the problems that we have to live with today are because of things that our parents’ generation did. They did not do them deliberately to make things hard for us. They just made mistakes, because of being human. Hence, a wise man will examine the things he has received from his parents, including his religion. He will keep the good things and reject those things that are not good. This is essential if he is to find the truth about religion.
