by cedars 164 Replies latest watchtower scandals
This sort of bickering between to opposing egos...
I have never seen it as that. That is how Cedars has portrayed it, but is it really like that?
This wasn't the first time Cedars took criticism as a personal attack on his character and forgot we are all on the same side.
As for why the current public spat on this topic, you only have to read the OP.....
Apologies to all those who don't like this thread. Of course, nobody is forcing anyone to read it - I just wanted to set the record straight. But I can understand the argument being made by some that it's unsavory for lurkers to see all this.
Anyone who has been following the "250,000" blood transfusion thread closely will know how this thread began. I criticized the transfusion thread because its entire premise (at least initially) was based on naming and shaming someone who happens to be a friend of mine rather than resolving things amiccably. I made a comment on page 4 of that thread to the effect that one of the most frustrating things about being in the Ex-JW community was all the infighting, and the eagerness with which some individuals leap on the tiniest mistake of their fellow Ex-JWs.
For some reason Simon decided to take issue with this observation and engaged in a lengthy argument with me, most of which has now been "sanitized." Even though he objected to my argument about the naming-and-shaming issue he later agreed to take my friend Julia's name out of the thread title at her request, so it seems I did have a point all along.
During my argument with Simon his staunch supporter OUTLAW entered the fray and decided to bring up AAWA, which I am no longer a member of. I was accused of being an AAWA operative out to cause trouble, and in particular I was once more accused of ordering Lee to lock a thread. When I began responding to OUTLAW's accusations I was criticized for taking the thread off-topic - even though it wasn't I who had taken the thread off-topic, it was OUTLAW.
The argument soon escalated with me on one side of the ring and Simon and OUTLAW on the other - both Simon and OUTLAW insisting that I had acted improperly in the whole AAWA-thread scandal. I knew differently, and I knew I could prove that their version of events was incorrect, but they were seemingly not interested in evidence and much more enjoyed painting me as the villain using the AAWA thread closure as their principal argument.
Once that argument died down I exchanged emails with Lee, and we both agreed that it would be fine to share certain emails that gave a more accurate version of events. After all, OUTLAW's attack on me had proven that it was still a sore point for him and Simon, and it was likely to keep flaring up intermittently. I forwarded a key email on to Simon and told him that now he had the evidence there would no longer be any excuse for him misrepresenting what happened.
The next thing I know Simon is making a snide remark on the 250,000 thread about my "caberet" performance and how he needed to clean the thread of my comments. Again, no hint was given that my initial complaints about the naming-and-shaming turned out to be perfectly legitimate, and I could not be held to blame if I had subsequently been set upon by both Simon (who would later act in accordance with my observations) and OUTLAW (who refused to let go of his AAWA thread-closure bone).
I made a few remarks to put Simon in his place, mentioning the thread closure issue in so doing. I hinted at the fact that I had email evidence that proved that Simon had blown things completely out of proportion as far as my involvement in it was concerned. Rather than acknowledging this, Simon goaded me to show the evidence - so we decided to do this on a seperate thread. Anyone who reads the first few posts of this thread will clearly see that, rather than this being a straightfoward case of me being a diva, Simon was properly at my throat at least to begin with before the emails were posted and he quietened down a bit.
So once again, I apologise for airing all this dirty laundry, but I had grown tired of all the goading and I wanted to set the record straight. Despite the peanut-gallery contingent who seem to spoil things without much hindrance, Simon has a good forum here and I often use it for research purposes. It would be a shame if JWN ever vanished along with all its valuable information. However, I do not take kindly to being pushed around. I have a fire in me when it comes to bullies, and it is this same fire that motivates me to expose Watchtower at any opportunity. I can take a joke at my expense (as my wife will tell you) and you can call me names until the cows come home, but I won't have lies deliberately spread about me. I think few would. So I decided to settle the score on this AAWA thread nonsense once and for all so that we can all finally move on. If anyone brings it up again I can just post a link to this thread.
Even if you don't agree with my methods, I hope you will all understand my motives for starting this thread. Despite being somewhat self-indulgent, I don't believe it was completely unjustified. I can certainly think of more pointless threads that nobody seems to object about.
Hopefully the information I've presented speaks for itself. If anyone has any further questions on this issue feel free to email me at [email protected] and I will do my best to answer them. Otherwise I apologise once more and thank you all for your patience and understanding.
Cedars
PS - I would just like to sincerely thank Simon for getting rid of an idiot who has been harrassing both myself and another poster by PM. He acted quickly once I brought it to his attention, and I appreciate this.
I don't know - you bring 2 Mancunians together and all hell breaks loose!
simon -
Ultimately, here you are - you started a topic called "Did Cedars manipulate Lee into having a thread closed?". It is your obsession with what you think others think of you. That's called ego.
cedars,
agree completely with simon, you need to quit it with the self grandeur. were you that guy that would go around double checking others' field service report for 'accuracy'?
get a life cedars.
Ummm, cedars started the thread.
Sigh, I guess this will go on and on and on until you get a clue ...
For some reason Simon decided to take issue with this observation and engaged in a lengthy argument with me, most of which has now been "sanitized." Even though he objected to my argument about the naming-and-shaming issue he later agreed to take my friend Julia's name out of the thread title at her request, so it seems I did have a point all along.
No, I think you're confusing different issues: it was right to challenge an unsupported number being promoted, it was possibly done in a slightly aggressive manner but then the initial reaction to its validity being questioned may have encouraged that and of course the AAWA sponsored bad feeling from previous issues that you were involved in creating (outing of faders on facebook).
Ultimately, JBD asked me to remove her name from the topic and I did as it really, quite rightly, became more about 'the number' than the person but that had nothing to do with you so don't start taking any credit - you were focused on having the tweet removed which was a different issue entirely and part of your "solve the problem by removing evidence" approach.
During my argument with Simon his staunch supporter OUTLAW entered the fray and decided to bring up AAWA, which I am no longer a member of. I was accused of being an AAWA operative out to cause trouble, and in particular I was once more accused of ordering Lee to lock a thread. When I began responding to OUTLAW's accusations I was criticized for taking the thread off-topic - even though it wasn't I who had taken the thread off-topic, it was OUTLAW.
Everyone is free to voice their own opinions, both of you contributed to it being off topic. It takes two to tango. If you hadn't been escalating the argument then I would only have deleted OUTLAWs posts but doubt he'd be here crying about it like you are.
The argument soon escalated with me on one side of the ring and Simon and OUTLAW on the other - both Simon and OUTLAW insisting that I had acted improperly in the whole AAWA-thread scandal. I knew differently, and I knew I could prove that their version of events was incorrect, but they were seemingly not interested in evidence and much more enjoyed painting me as the villain using the AAWA thread closure as their principal argument.
No, you thought you could prove differently which is what this whole topic is now about and, well, I don't think you have been too convincing to be honest. I think most impartial observers probably think you're a little nuts. You were accusing me of some big cover up and re-writing of history and yet the original topic is there for all to see and now the emails too which make it pretty clear what happened and reinforce what I've been saying all along:
AAWA conspired to have a topic they (you!) didn't like locked. You all made bad decisions and communicated poorly but as we've seen, that quickly became your trademark.
Once that argument died down I exchanged emails with Lee, and we both agreed that it would be fine to share certain emails that gave a more accurate version of events. After all, OUTLAW's attack on me had proven that it was still a sore point for him and Simon, and it was likely to keep flaring up intermittently. I forwarded a key email on to Simon and told him that now he had the evidence there would no longer be any excuse for him misrepresenting what happened.
Again, accusing me of misrepresenting things. I really believe that you truly believe what you've constructed in your head which explains quite a few previous issues but is still quite concerning. As others have done, I would encourage you to get some help from a professional.
You've attacked other people on this topic as though they have been out to get you over what? Something they posted that didn't support your viewpoint 6 months ago too?
The next thing I know Simon is making a snide remark on the 250,000 thread about my "caberet" performance and how he needed to clean the thread of my comments. Again, no hint was given that my initial complaints about the naming-and-shaming turned out to be perfectly legitimate, and I could not be held to blame if I had subsequently been set upon by both Simon (who would later act in accordance with my observations) and OUTLAW (who refused to let go of his AAWA thread-closure bone).
Well, you did make a big song and dance out of things. For me, that's pure cabaret. Then you came back for an encore.
Bravo !!
I made a few remarks to put Simon in his place, mentioning the thread closure issue in so doing. I hinted at the fact that I had email evidence that proved that Simon had blown things completely out of proportion as far as my involvement in it was concerned. Rather than acknowledging this, Simon goaded me to show the evidence - so we decided to do this on a seperate thread. Anyone who reads the first few posts of this thread will clearly see that, rather than this being a straightfoward case of me being a diva, Simon was properly at my throat at least to begin with before the emails were posted and he quietened down a bit.
No, you kept harping on making tired and false claims that I 'covered things up' which I did not. The off topic argument that you insisted on having was removed from the otherwise good topic and then you determined to start a new one and attempted to be a martyr.
If you think my first post on this topic was "being at your throat" then you are on another planet. I stated the facts, plain and simple. They are there for anyone to read and decide if I was "at your throat" or just answering the false allegation you keep insisting on making. Or do you consider simple facts to be some sort of "attack"?
I didn't 'quieten down' because the emails were posted you fool, I quietened down because I felt sorry for you and was showing a little pitty but as always, the slightest bit of consideration is thrown back in my face. All you ever do is respond to offers of help with insults and tantrums.
You're incredibly predictable and tiring.
So once again, I apologise for airing all this dirty laundry, but I had grown tired of all the goading and I wanted to set the record straight. Despite the peanut-gallery contingent who seem to spoil things without much hindrance, Simon has a good forum here and I often use it for research purposes. It would be a shame if JWN ever vanished along with all its valuable information. However, I do not take kindly to being pushed around. I have a fire in me when it comes to bullies, and it is this same fire that motivates me to expose Watchtower at any opportunity. I can take a joke at my expense (as my wife will tell you) and you can call me names until the cows come home, but I won't have lies deliberately spread about me. I think few would. So I decided to settle the score on this AAWA thread nonsense once and for all so that we can all finally move on. If anyone brings it up again I can just post a link to this thread.
Goading? You think *I* have been goading *you*? I think you need a reality check and people can go and checkout your childish immature outburst that you started here which led to this topic:
Everyone can now see what sort of person you are Cedars. This is not the first time you have done this routine. You have a problem.
Even if you don't agree with my methods, I hope you will all understand my motives for starting this thread. Despite being somewhat self-indulgent, I don't believe it was completely unjustified. I can certainly think of more pointless threads that nobody seems to object about.
No, I don't agree with your methods and no, I don't understand your motives. I think you're probably a little unstable and need some help.
Hopefully the information I've presented speaks for itself. If anyone has any further questions on this issue feel free to email me at [email protected] and I will do my best to answer them. Otherwise I apologise once more and thank you all for your patience and understanding.
I think it does speak for itself and I thank you for demonstrating to the world what you are like and how detached from reality as well as how obsessive and egotistical you are.
PS - I would just like to sincerely thank Simon for getting rid of an idiot who has been harrassing both myself and another poster by PM. He acted quickly once I brought it to his attention, and I appreciate this.
Yeah, but I'm still probably evil ... right? How does that even fit in with your other beliefs? Wouldn't I be encouraging people to send nasty messages to you based on your other reality instead of stopping them?
tl;dr;
Cedars, you're nuts - you should get some professional help. I know you won't but hopefully your wife will read this and make you (unless she's completely made up or constructed out of dead body parts)
Simon
Cedars, you're nuts - you should get some professional help. I know you won't but hopefully your wife will read this and make you (unless she's completely made up or constructed out of dead body parts)
It's regrettable that someone who speaks so vocally against insults so freely dishes them out. Now I am married to frankenstein's monster and "nuts" for expressing myself freely - or would "mentally diseased" be more to your liking?
Anyway, this is your forum. It has been proven time and again that I am not allowed to express a viewpoint that differs from yours unless I am willing to brace myself for a string of patronizing remarks and ad hominem, either from you or from your pitbull OUTLAW. To top it off I now have a reduced comment quota, so if evidence were needed that the house always wins - there it is.
At least I have said my piece for the record - that is assuming you don't "sanitize" this piece of evidence of your bullying tendencies as you have others. I don't have anything to add.
Cedars
LOL, typical - you pick up on the couple of odd words and miss the rest of the message.
You're truly 'special'.
At least I have said my piece for the record - that is assuming you don't "sanitize" this piece of evidence of your bullying tendencies as you have others. I don't have anything to add.
Oh, don't you worry, I indend to keep this right here so everyone can see what you're like and that any lies you try to slander with me are just that - lies. I know as soon as I remove anything that concerns you you'll immediately start trying to re-write what happened and I'm done with your childish games.
You may think you're clever now but I predict you will be asking me to remove this topic in future. The answer will be no.
Simon
You may think you're clever now but I predict you will be asking me to remove this topic in future. The answer will be no.
I'm absolutely delighted that you're keeping it. Thank you.
And since we're in the mood for predictions, I predict you'll be embarrassed by your silly "dead body parts" insult when my wife and I start making videos.
Cedars
I predict that Simon will get tired of you and lock this topic.
