by Zandor 41 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
Sure, Bella15, perspective is what empowers a person to move on. You are right.
Her abuse goes further, IMO, that she snubbed out any and all self-esteem and confidence that ever tried to take root in him, and all three of her children seem to be emotionally dependent on her and her narcissism. She is still very much influencing, enabling, and manipulating him since he still lives at home and it's been hard to get him to see that he needs to get away from her influence and set new boundaries.
conduit would be the path one uses to get to the solution or to dive further into the problem.
You have a 20 year old who does meth and gets f**ked by older men with family issues that "stumbled" into your life six months ago... and somehow you now want to save this kid (and he is still a kid) from his long life of being used by everyone... so you decide to use him and his story here?
I'm guessing you're one of the older men he hooked up with. With this thread you are garnering all of the benifits of his story while he gets nothing from it. Why do I say that?
Because there is nothing you can do here. And I know you want to SAVE him (maybe clean him to marry him) but it will not work. It never works. There is too much here for you to understand... so much so you're coming to an ex-JW website for help. If you stand in front of him and show him the way, he will ricochet off and go back to the problem. If you try and support him, you are enabling. There is no way to fix this from your point of view.
What you CAN do is steer him to the nearest rehab and treatment center and be there when he gets out. Remember, rehab and therapy come BEFORE love and support. Love and support are the reward... NOT the conduit. You can't fix ANY of these guy's issues with hugs, teddy bears, and gold stars... so stop trying to. There are many ways you can be the problem. There is no way you can be the solution. There are people who are paid to do that... so be a postive conduit and point him in that direction.
There is no way one person can harbor stability in his mind, but an institution can, and since he's under 21, there are many LGBT options to help him including places to stay. THAT will be of more benefit than anything else you have to offer... him being around other kids... like him. And the success stories of the councelors give him direction and hope.
Conduit? Enabler? Concerned bystander?
I said he tumbled into my life sideways. The drug use and addiction came to the surface over time and was not apparent until he came to me recently to share his anguish over it and how it was overtaking him.
No, we never hooked up. I am not gay and have no interest in him sexually.
I agree that he needs professional help, but he refuses to accept this kind of help and is rapidly cycling in his pattern of brief sobriety and relapse. I know that I am not adequately equipped to counsel or heal him, but I am determined to keep pointing him to rehab and counseling each time he relapses and during his breif days of sobriety. The one thing I understand most here is that addiction destroys lives and relationships. I watched family members live and die from various forms of addiction.
I'm here because there are certain things about addiction and abuse I do not understand, and I really want to. I am here trying to garner insight, and I'm hopeful that I can find a way to make a difference. How can I do this, or say the right thing, or do the right thing without sharing his story? It's what people do on this and other forums. This kid merits being saved from his destructive course, and requires intervention. You've drawn a lot of conclusions without any evidence, and you're a bit dickish about it, and that's fine, but sincerely, screw yourself.
Children need to be children as long as possible, they shouldnt carry adult problems on their shoulders. Some parents need to unburden onto their kids as they are emotionally unstable, some want the kids to be manipulated and so tell them things about the other parent.
This all does damage.
Dont fight infront of them, ohysical and heavy verbal is a huge no no. Dont let them see awful things e.g. police involvment, arresting of parent, damage to property after a fight, being drunk, any sexual activity or talk too young. To pile on troubles such as relationship, financial, family, health etc is also wrong a child doesn't comprehend and strives for security, stability and will have sleepness nights over threats to those things.
Some people just aren't good parents. Plopping out a kid is no achievment, animals do it, rearing the child properly is the achievment.
As regards to age, there are middle aged or older people that struggle to hear parental difficulties or divorce so imagine a kids turmoil.
This mother in the OP did this for her own personal reasons, to cause pain and distress to her partner and to satisfy her own pains.... with no concern for the result to the child. This happens a lot... it is hardly the sign of a good parent.
It is funny, i am in university with people a lot younger. I have come to know the families and parents, they are all so stable and strong. JW families are shameful, there is also a big class issue in family parenting, I have seen it all my life and in clinics. Obviously this is not meant to be a sweeping statement, just a personal observation. Being from the lowest income class family myself, I feel happy saying it.
A JW mom in my family did a similar thing.
The JW relative was getting a secular divorce, but needed proof that her JW soon-to-be-ex husband was cheating for a scriptual divorce. So, the JW relative and her female JW friend staged a date between the husband and a third, Non-JW Friend. The non-JW friend invited the JW husband back to her apartment. The JW relative and her JW friend sat in the laundry room, adjacent to the apartment. They couldn't get on top of the washer/dryers to be near the grate that led to the next door apartment, so they had the the 4 or 5 year old daughter "listen in" to the conversation/happenings in the apartment from the laundry room.
I don't think the little girl "got it" as to what was going on at the time or how sick it was all. But, now, I'm sure she does.
Just sick.
Skeeter
This kid merits being saved from his destructive course, and requires intervention. You've drawn a lot of conclusions without any evidence, and you're a bit dickish about it, and that's fine, but sincerely, screw yourself.
Maybe he does, and maybe he doesn't. You don't know that because you've only known him for 6 months while he is in an absurd state. You just ASSUME he his (and I personally like to think ALL humans are). Regardless, the ability to steer him from his destructive course or not is not going to be determined by you - it is determined by HIM made easier if he has points to aim for and examples to go by. You offer neither (right now), and you are not equipped to handle ANY of his absurd history or his present spiraling state. You WANT to, and that's sweet... but pointless (as most things "sweet" usually are in this particular setting). You can show sympathy at best... which is the worst possible thing to give someone in his situation. He needs empathy and understanding... people like him working with problems like him and success stories that give him inspiration.
Assuming he WANTS to change (this... is the LARGEST factor in all this... something you have yet to address). With any drug spiral (especially alcoholism) one has to WANT to change... and a world has to be presented BETTER than the drug.
If you come on here and tell his story in chopped up, shock progressive, increasingly dramatic revelations like layers of an onion then you are not here to help him... you're here to help yourself, for whatever reason. You tell us the purpose is to "understand him." Well you can't. So stop trying because it's fairly obvious you are not equipped to digest this kind of situation, yet alone relay the story in one coherent sitting. And even if you did understand it, there is a high likelihood you could get it across to him in the manner and method for him to absorb properly in order for it to take root (something NONE of us can convey over internet anyway).
His being able to digest this information (and there is good information here BTW) is the second largest factor iin all this)
Addiction (to drugs, people, sex, ego, whatever) is like death or love... each version is different for each person, and going through the steps of coping with has to be supported differently. They are all idividualized emotions. If you think of "addiction" as something universal or blanket, then you don't get addiction at all. And you certainly do not get the long history of what got him there... or why this particular path is comforting (numbing in some areas... retaliatory in others). In his abuse he might have found a 'happy place' of comfort while his brother did his thing... he might be trying to recreate that comfort. It might simultaneously disgust him, hence the meth. Or the drugs might be a way of numbing his emotions to retaliate against older men, knowing they will act like you... in which he can emotionally screw them over while sober. It could be he just wants to forget his entire life and wants a force more powerful than him to "jog" that energy out of him...
YOU DON'T KNOW ANY OF THIS and you're not going to understand it anymore than you could understand a 'spirit walk' of the Native Americans or the feeling of an astronaut's first trip to space. So instead of the high possibility of just being sympathetic (and thus condescending) and trying to save him (making him dependent... like the JWs makes their people), without knowing what minor detail in this dense story is triggering this (if any), or (possibly) trying to help someone who has to go through his own personal trial by fire (character development), and without understanding of the many different directions that all look the same from the outside... point him to someone (or an institution) who can help - someone trained in this.
I've seen (literally) hundreds of guys just like you grasping at straws to 'get' levels of damaged human psychology they are not equipped to handle. Assess if he wants to be helped first. If he doesn't, say what I wrote above and do both of you a favor and walk away. If he does want help, guide him to someone who can help him on his level. If he has periods of sobriety, then drugs are not his main problem... think stablization and security first (self worth, maybe). Drugs are the method, not the motivation. If he is drunk all the time, alcohol is a worse issue than drugs - he's in avoidance of something. If drugs and sex are combined, then there is a sexual security he's trying to work with... etc. etc. etc. The many facets of the over-simplified presentation of a very complex story makes it impossible to give any decent advice. He needs a professional, but try to assess which professional he needs first. It doesn't sound like rehab should come first. Therapy then rehab, but that's just an assumption.
You don't have to believe me... but I know this world well. I may be dickish about it, but it doesn't make me wrong. I have seen way too many egomaniacs trying to handle something whose roots go so far and deep into areas they cannot comprehend only to perpetuate the problem. So for "nice" people like you that make matters worse for my younger brothers... the next generation to follow after me... YEAH, I'm going to be a f**king dick about it. GOD is in the details, and it's the details that are important here, and only he knows the details.
This is why I said, it is not your problem. So don't take it on. Kind sentiment does incredible harm when improperly applied. Do the best for him and and yourself - look up LGBT groups (whose main purpose is to help gay "orphans" in this exact situation) and steer him to someone who is equipped to handle this sort of things.
Then lead by example.
Thanks for your two cents, BSD.
The opening salvo - allegations that a mother forced her child to go and watch a sex act - a crime in most States - appears to be nothing more than slander.
Sexual exploitation of a minor is a crime. There is no proof whatsoever that this mother had any intent on forcing her child to view a sex act and in fact, it appears that if the child saw anything, it was momentary, fleeting and not intentional. If it was not, then one would have to point at the father and his girlfriend as being complicit in that exploitation and it seems that all the rage is against only the mother.
I agree with backstreet - and there was no reason to respond with anger and name calling. sammieswife
Hate to break it to you, but yes, the mother DID force the child into seeing whatever lay behind that door. According to M, she held him by the hand and stood there letting him take it all in- the surprise entrance, and the ensuing reactions, etc. As a parent, I cannot imagine taking my child, at any age, to confront my spouse, argue, fight, whatever. This was a highly charged problem between the parents, and she brought the child along in order to inflict pain and shame on the husband, used him as a pawn with no consideration for how this would effect the child. For the mother, catching them in the act of sexual intercourse was PERFECT for her purposes. She FORCED this on the child.
Edited to say that it occurs to me that some people with very strong opinions do not take the time carefully read what others take the time to thoughtfully write, and tend to miss or distort statements or respond without asking questions for clarification. lol
