I accept that science cannot prove the non-existence of God. But . . .

by nicolaou 185 Replies latest members adult

• 

  tec

  I tried to be polite about it. Picky picky.

  No... you brought up something that was not even being discussed. As you are doing elsewhere now as well. But I digress...

  I think Jeffro raised a valid point, since your typical argument is that believers just don't "know" God like you do, when the actual issue is about God's existence (a binary condition), and the topic is about the ability to prove the existence of ANY deity, sociopath or nice guy, alike.

  That is not my argument. But I would agree with the rest, except you did not say ANY deity... you said, 'god of the bible'.

  since you've already said there's no evidence that could possibly persuade you to disbelieve in Jesus.

  This is not what I said. I said there IS no evidence that could prove He never existed. And I do not think you disagree with me or you would just present your evidence that proves that Christ never existed. (evidence other than arguments or conspiracy theories that currently exist... that are based upon supposition... because I have heard all of those and engaged in such discussions and there are always holes in them; since they are no more then suppositions/guesses/hypothesis'/etc.)

  But may I remind you that proof was the word YOU used... regarding a claim that you made.

  Peace to you,

  tammy
• 

  THE GLADIATOR

  I see a blank post has come up with my avatar - I must have lent on the key board, or demons are at work.
• 

  Phizzy

  I see Prologos has not answered Caedes very valid question, I wonder why ?
• 

  KateWild

  Adam, are you there? tumbleweed

  Sam xx
• 

  KateWild

  I see Prologos has not answered Caedes very valid question, I wonder why ?-phizzy

  I am saying the same about Adam too.

  Sam xx
• 

  Seraphim23

  This comment got my attention:

  “Does that mean that the sheer amount of energy required to create something that could in turn create the universe also mean that your creator requires a creator of their own?

  Is it turtles all the way down or do you arbitrarily draw the line at your creator? If it is not turtles all the way down and you do draw the line at your creator what makes you draw the line there?”

  This kind of issue always comes down to the something from nothing issue or its alternative, something forever/ infinite. Logically something from nothing is not an option, so it must be some form of the other which is going to be “turtles all the way down”. Of course not literally turtles but something that has infinity in it. The reason why a line can be drawn at intelligence or some kind of intelligence plus infinity, which often gets the label of God, is because what is seen to exist has order that is discovered and understood only in minds.

  So it not an unreasonable thought to think a God may well be behind the general order that is seen to be endemic in existence because the alternative explanation makes less sense. These are either the something from nothing argument which has no intellectual merit or the infinite regression view without a mind being behind it, which obviously leaves the issue of order unexplained along with the mathematical mystery of the relationship between discovered mathematics and physical creation.

  Infinity by itself is beyond most forms of comprehension and of science, and infinity is in general the only alternative to the `something from nothing` view, although it comes in different forms as outlined above. Some infinity views explain more facts than others, as with the God one, but because infinity is beyond computational comprehension, and order is only the property of finite things, this means a big gap in all our understanding stands there looking at all of us, both atheist and theist alike. However I would say that the idea of a God may be the most sensible and as far as we can go in understanding the relationship between what infinity is and the order we see in the universe.
• 

  cofty

  Logically something from nothing is not an option

  Says who?

  Trying to solve this puzzle by positing an eternal omniptent god, is like a man who borrows $1m to pay off his $10,000 debt.

  Credit to Island Man for this ^^^^^^^^
• 

  Seraphim23

  I would honestly love to hear an explanation of how to get something from nothing that didn’t break every law of logic, comprehension and cognisance.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I tried to be polite about it. Picky picky.

  No... you brought up something that was not even being discussed. As you are doing elsewhere now as well. But I digress...

  Certainly there are some who see and/or possess overwhelmingly compelling evidence FOR God.

  As you can see by looking up above the comments and by reading the opening post, staying on topic had to do with science not being able to prove the non-existence of God.

  The idea that others can provide evidence FOR God is indicated by your post. I already changed the words because you balked at my taking your words "evidence for" to mean "proof."

  I did not see any evidence in your post nor any place where such solid evidence could be found, so I commented on how I think we should treat the type of evidence that you might be referring to. Again, I corrected where you objected to "evidence for" meaning something like "proof." It seems so petty when people balk at such similar definitions. Kinda like "inspired" vs. "spirit-directed." Since that might be important to you, I changed it.

  If you have solid evidence that can pass THE AMAZING RANDI's test, post it or recognize that I was very much on topic.

  Stop assuming I get off topic for some ulterior motives. I have demonstrated why I brought up what I brought up and how it was on topic.
• 

  adamah

  Seraphim said-

  I would honestly love to hear an explanation of how to get something from nothing that didn’t break every law of logic, comprehension and cognisance.

  I take it you've never heard of theoretical physicist and cosmologist Lawrence Krauss (from ASU)? He explains how something (i.e. the Universe) can come from nothing:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EilZ4VY5Vs