by jgnat 153 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Really - How is breaking up families compatible with "do unto others?"- cofty
The prodigal son parable was about uniting families, Luke 15.17-32. Which scripture teaches that Jesus wanted to break up families, I have read the bible and genuinely don't recall. I would be interested in the scripture.
Kate xx
Its all in the thread Kate
oops
Found it!!!
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. - Matt 19:25-29 - cofty
This is a harmful teaching, Matt 7.12 is not compatible with Matt 19.25-29. Matt 7.12 is still a helpfull teaching.
Luke 15.17-32 is also a helpful teaching. Kate xx
It's a good thing we have tec here to explain what Jesus REALLY meant. Otherwise we would just have to take what he said at face value.
Cofty,
Do you realize that by accepting only the canonized, homogenized gospels we can't discuss this topic properly? You concede some value in "sanctified fables", but you don't realize that you only allow for fables/fictions to be discussed. Is it fair to center the discussion of Jesus' teachings on the least reliable stories about him?
Allow for a Jesus who is NOT a designer diety constructed by bishops.
Further, if the Jesus' teachings handed down are found elsewhere in the world--I say,"WHAT OF IT?"
On another of your threads you stated that the core of Jesus' teaching did revolve around the Golden Rule while noting the teaching was not even original with him. WHAT OF IT? Are the value of his teachings generally LESS wonderful if they have been resonating in other cultures, places and times? What could possibly be the problem with that?
I have to say that it is cruel to use your considerable goodness and wit to do further damage to the reputation of a man who, despite the bizarre constructions laid over his grave by others, still shines as an advocate for the desperate, the ignorant and the poor. Oddly if not miraculously, these same desperate, ignorant and poor have been able to mine the gold in he teachings more often than not.
Read other sources, Cofty.
But Humbled I already believe in love and goodness and equality and compassion.
Reading ancient esoteric gnostic books is only going to make me grumpy.
Cofty, have you ever read any of the gnostic gospels? Why do you prefer to quote only the gospel versions of the women-haters and the power-hungry? the ones that created a powerful institution of control. - Humbled
Gospel of Thomas saying 16
Jesus said: Perhaps men think that I am come to cast peace upon the world; and they do not know that I am come to cast dissensions upon the earth, fire, sword, war. For there will be five who are in a house; three shall be against two and two against three, the father against the son and the son against the father, and they shall stand as solitaries.
Gospel of Thomas saying 55
Jesus said: He who does not hate his father and his mother cannot be a disciple to me. And (he who does not) hate his brothers and sisters and take up his cross like me, will not be worthy of me.
Gospel of Thomas saying 99
The disciples said to him: Your brothers and your mother are standing outside. He said to them: Those here who do the will of my Father, these are my brothers and my mother; they are the ones who will enter into the kingdom of my Father.
Gospel of Thomas saying 101
<Jesus said:> He who does not hate his father and his mother like me cannot be a [disciple] to me. And he who does [not] love [his father] and his mother like me cannot be a [disciple] to me. For my mother [ . . . ], but [my] true [mother] gave me life.
Gospel of Thomas saying 114
Simon Peter said to them: Let Mariham go out from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Look, I will lead her that I may make her male, in order that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Very well for you, you are a saint.
But for the rest of us who needed (and still need) remedial work to function in these areas--who is there to help?
Jesus.
The church that grabbed power as time went on condemned (called other writings "heresies" "Gnosticism" et al) stories of Jesus that varied from their very handy religious construction of him. Yet above all the conflicting stories about him, one teaching dominates-Love one another as I have loved you. Throw all else away and this is the best thing of all.
It straightens out what is crooked. It allows us to separate the dross from the gold even in the undependable propaganda the churches have laid on about him.
Humbled you contrasted the gnostic gospels with the mysogynistic orthodox gospels, but the gnostics seem to be even worse.
"For every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven ."
