Ahhh hawk. I have buried you. You have completely ignored the context of the quote (which BTW was not their quote at all), and my evidence above, which provides the death-knell to your doctrine.
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar 185 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
hector3000
dutch: Surely the "generation" doctrine was core to the teachings of the witnesses.
Reply: The "generation" is a change of application of prophecy. not a change of doctrine. Part of our believe system states that we are to accept this kind of change, which you might say, is doctrine.
"We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,-in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth. . . . It is our duty to "prove all things."-by the unerring Word,-"and hold fast to that which is good."" -- "The Ten Virgins," Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's
Presence, October 1879, reprint, 38.dutch: Also, as you said we humans are not vessels of absolute truth. But surely you believe that Jehovah is a vessel of absolute truth and the watchtower is supposed to be Jehovah's earthly organization.
Reply: "Nevertheless, we are far from claiming any direct plenary inspiration. . . .
A careful examination of the subject leads us to the conclusion that the Lord providentially shapes our course so as to give us such personal experiences in life as will bring us to his word for comfort and instruction in righteousness; and thus he permits us to sympathize with the experiences and questionings of his people, and then present to them at appropriate times the lessons drawn from our own experiences, backed by the instructions and comfort of the Scriptures." -- "Interesting Letters," Zion's Watch Tower and
Herald of Christ's Presence, 15 July 1899, reprint, 2506. -
Will Power
Hect
with all these extremely clever arguments you've made in WT defense I cannot help but think that you must be coming up in years of service and due for a big promotion. You must keep copies to present at your next interview/JC. Head office needs people that can look past the questions and put forth opinions on unrelated points in such an imaginative way. These are the tools that are an asset when the frying pan starts to get hot.Now, could you answer the questions I submitted above? Prove your words to Dutch are not empty, that you believe what you just typed and that you follow God & the bible and not a bunch of men who run a publishing business.
Thanks
-
hawkaw
Hect,
Absolutely wrong and incorrect. If you are so right - where oh where is the WT doctrine that says being an associated NGO with the UN is okay for any religion never mind the WT.
I and others have posted and read the 1991 and 1976 articles. They are clear on how false religion "mates" with the beast. Being an associated NGO with the UN is one of those improper thingys that "God's chosen organization" would never do according to the WT. Problem is that between Feb. 14, 1992 to October, 2001 the WTB&TS of NY did exactly that and broke their own doctrine.
hawk
-
Dutchie
As you are no doubt aware, it has only been in these later years that the watchtower stopped teaching that its writings were divinely inspired by Jehovah, just as the bible was.
However, in place of that we are now taught that the society is Jehovah's organization on earth dispensing food to his followers at the proper time. In fact it seems to me that the Govering Body has set themselves up as a sort of mediator between us and Jehovah. I am sure you won't agree, but witesses have to give their allegiance to the Governing Body, not question them and to follow ALL of their edicts.
I digress. If the watchtower were truly Jehovah's organization there surely would be consistency in its teachings. Jehovah is a god of order, not disorder.
No other explanation seems reasonable, especially in view of the constant warning sthat we are living in the time of the end.
The Calvins and the Luterants never claimed to be the only true religion. That is the crux of the matter as far as I am concerned, the fact that the witnesses claim to be the only true religion, the only one that Jehovah directs through the Governing Body of 12 old, caucasian men. You know how they got to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave? They said so!
Hector, don't get upset but I am going to use that word again: SAD
Sad that people let their lives be consumed by this organization just because some men tell you that they have the "truth" and then they publish numerous books and magazines to "prove" that this is the truth, when Jehovah's word the bible should be enough.Hector, I do not doubt that you gave away many magazines for free. However, don't forget that YOU paid for those magazines before you offered them to the householder. So the watchtower got their money.
-
Will Power
dutchie
In fact it seems to me that the Govering Body has set themselves up as a sort of mediator between us and Jehovah.
It says right in the Aid book under mediator that THEY the GB is the mediator for the other crowd. Jesus Christ is only the mediator for the annointed, the 144,000.
I am sure you knew this, but most dedicated JWs do not
-
Dutchie
Thanks Will. I appreciate your help.
-
Will Power
So, Hect
Who do you believe is the mediator between YOU and Jehovah?
-
hector3000
dutch: As you are no doubt aware, it has only been in these later years that the watchtower stopped teaching that its writings were divinely inspired by Jehovah, just as the bible was.
Reply: Nope, those quotes I gave you are over a century old.
dutch: I digress. If the watchtower were truly Jehovah's organization there surely would be consistency in its teachings. Jehovah is a god of order, not disorder.
Reply: Maybe this is true for the divinely inspired 1st century church, but not for those who know "by faith, not by sight." You will actually find JW are more consistent than other churches in this matter, but we are not perfect. I got the following from Rob Bowman:
"The latest Barna and Gallup research reveals the shocking but true
statistics of how the church is being molded by or postmodern culture rather
than vice-versa. For example 1996-1997 research reveals the following:
84% of Americans claim to be "Christian." (a significant drop from 90% in
1995-1996) and 40% of Americans claim to be "born again," that is to have
confessed their sins and accepted Jesus Christ and Lord and Savior.67% of the general population reject belief in absolute truth and also
believe that all religions will equally get one to heaven if one is faithful
(universalism). As alarming as this is, even more so is that 53% of "born
again" Christians agree with this and reject the belief in absolute truth
while 41% of the "born again population embrace the belief of universalism!The belief that a person qualifies for heaven if they are good, breaks down
denominationally as follows:Roman Catholics, 82%; Methodist, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians
range from 52-59%; Baptist 38%; Assemblies of God 22%.70% of Americans are members of a church, temple, or synagogue, however,
only 31% attend weekly. It gets worse. Only 17% attend Sunday School weekly
(1996), down from 23% in 1991.58% of Americans believe that the Bible is totally accurate, 32% of the
"born again" Christian reject the infallibility of the Bible.20% of Americans identify themselves as New Age practitioners, 53% believe
in ESP, 24% have practiced Transcendental Meditation, 34% believe in a New
Age form of God, 36% read their horoscopes regularly and 26% believe that
astrology is scientifically accurate (a recent Life Magazine poll indicated
48% believe that astrology is probably or definitely valid). Belief in
reincarnation grew from 25% in 1992 to an astonishing 30% in 1996.Especially troubling is of the "born again" population: 28% believe that
Jesus sinned and didn’t rise from the dead, 47% say Satan is not living
being-only a symbol for evil, and 43% deny the Person of the Holy Spirit
calling Him a symbol of Gods power!As you read the above incredible statistics remember that 84% of those
polled identified themselves as "Christians." Because of the high level of
consciousness toward religion or spirituality, with a low level of true
knowledge or understanding, our population continues to drift toward the
abyss. The old Biblical paradigm teaches that if you have the right teaching
you will experience God correctly, redemptively. The new paradigm is that if
you "experience" God, then you have the "right" teaching."dutchie: The Calvins and the Luterants never claimed to be the only true religion.
Reply: That's not entirely true also.
Dutch, don't get upset but I am going to use that word again: SAD
Sad that people let their lives be consumed by this "hate" just because some men tell you that they have the "truth" and then they publish numerous books and magazines to "prove" that this is the truth, when Jehovah's word the bible should be enough.dutch: Hector, I do not doubt that you gave away many magazines for free. However, don't forget that YOU paid for those magazines before you offered them to the householder. So the watchtower got their money
Reply: Did I?
-
hector3000
Ahh Hawk...you still don't get it. W76:
"The Roman Catholic Church and the World Council of Churches, with a membership of over 250 churches, have repeatedly declared the United Nations to be “the chief temporal hope for world peace.”"Have JW's done this? No!
" The Holy See maintains a permanent observer at the UN and contributes financial as well as moral support to many of its economic, social, scientific, cultural, and humanitarian programs."
Have JW's done this? No!
"Sixteen Catholic international organizations contribute formally to the work of ECOSOC and various Specialized Agencies through the medium of consultative status with these bodies, and Catholic groups and individuals in various countries contribute to the formation of national policy and action with regard to the UN.”-Vol. 14, p. 423."
Have JW's done this? No!
From W91:
"A recent book gives an idea when it states: “No less than twenty-four Catholic organizations are represented at the UN. Several of the world’s religious leaders have visited the international organization. Most memorable were the visits of His Holiness Pope Paul VI during the General Assembly in 1965 and of Pope John Paul II in 1979. Many religions have special invocations, prayers, hymns and services for the United Nations. The most important examples are those of the Catholic, the Unitarian-Universalist, the Baptist and the Bahai faiths.”"Have JW's done this? No!
Talk about making mountains out of library cards.
That is pretty much all I have to say on this tired topic.