Typical JW Apologist

by TheStar 185 Replies latest jw friends

Will Power

The problem with everyone here is that they expect perfection where there never was any in the first place:
"We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,-in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth. . . . It is our duty to "prove all things."-by the unerring Word,-"and hold fast to that which is good."" -- "The Ten Virgins," Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence, October 1879, reprint, 38.
I say BRAVO to that!
Now, whether you realize it or not this seems to be a witness's stock answer when confronted with the idea of what is truth, truth[tm] and what is knowledge.
extra-ordinary quote. Is it just the quote from 1879 or are you familiar with the rest of the ever progressing truth printed in that year?
It is a great quote if it were believed and practiced. Only we all know that is not the case, but it is another case of empty words.
Here is a great quiz:
Try to answer each in turn, and be honest!
Would you be disfellowshipped as an apostate from the WT TODAY, if you believed and taught the Society's doctrines of 1920? (or 1879, or 1974) (after the inspection)
YES______ NO______
Would a JW of 1920 have been disfellowshipped if he then believed and taught present-day WT doctrines?
YES______ NO______
Would a JW living in 1913 have been disfellowshipped from the WT if he believed and taught that 1914 was NOT going to be the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty" or Armagedon as the Society was then saying (StinScrip, VolII, The Time Is At Hand, 1908 ed. pg 101, 171 & 245)?
YES______ NO______
Is it right to be disfellowshipped and treated as an apostate for believing and teaching the TRUTH?
YES______ NO______
Since the WT's doctrines and practices are continually changing, would you say that thousands of JWs in the past were NOT "in the truth" according to present-day WT teachings, as they confessed?
YES______ NO______
Have thousands of JWs died believing and teaching WT "errors", according to present-day WT teachings?
YES______ NO______
Did you know that CT Russell taught the resurrected Jesus is "Almighty" based on his conclusion of Matt 28:18 (The Finished Mystery pg 15)?
YES______ NO______
According to Matt 28:18, is it the Father or the Son who as "ALL authority" in HEAVEN and on earth?
FATHER______ SON______
As a JW are you allowed to worship the one with "ALL authority" in HEAVEN and on earth?
YES______ NO______
What is more important? Loyalty the the Truth or loyalty to the TruthTM?
Can you distinguish between the Two?
YES______ NO______
If the light keeps getting brighter on the ever expanding knowledge of the truthTM then these questions must be asked as well as
Since the WT's doctrines and practices are continually changing, would you say that thousands of JWs in the past were NOT in the truthTM according to present-day WT teachings, as they confessed?
YES_____ NO______
Are you sure the same thing won't happen to YOU?
YES_____ NO______
hawkaw

Hi TS,
Yeah no weasel room is right.
I must say I still find that June 1, 1991 Watchtower quote remarkable. Not so much as to what it said in paragraph 11 but the sentence it did not quote from Muller. Just as Mad Apostate indicated, that "exclusion" of that sentence speakes volumes as to what really happened in 1991 when the Watchtower applied for an "associated NGO" status with the beast.
With that "NGO" sentence from Muller's article added to paragraph 11, look how much stronger paragraph 11 would been in demonstrating what Christendom does to "ride" the beast. But the sentence was not added and even part of the next sentence was missing as well.
And now my friend we know why.
hawk
hector3000

Here is a great quiz:
Try to answer each in turn, and be honest!
Would you be disfellowshipped as an apostate from the WT TODAY, if you believed and taught the Society's doctrines of 1920? (or 1879, or 1974) (after the inspection)
YES______ NO______
Reply: Yes, and you should be df'ed. 1974?? We are progressive, not regressive. If we all truly were regressive, the entire western world would still be Catholic.
Would a JW of 1920 have been disfellowshipped if he then believed and taught present-day WT doctrines?
YES______ NO______
Reply: Biblically, anyone factious should be removed (though finding examples of the above might be harder to prove. A waiting attitude is an exemplary Christian trait.
Would a JW living in 1913 have been disfellowshipped from the WT if he believed and taught that 1914 was NOT going to be the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty" or Armagedon as the Society was then saying (StinScrip, VolII, The Time Is At Hand, 1908 ed. pg 101, 171 & 245)?
YES______ NO______
Reply: Who cares?
Is it right to be disfellowshipped and treated as an apostate for believing and teaching the TRUTH?
YES______ NO______
Reply: YES! In Acts 16:17 we have the following:
"She followed Paul and us, crying, "These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation." And this she did for many days. But Paul was annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I charge you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." And it came out that very hour." RSV
This demon was expelled, even though he told the truth. The SOURCE of truth was more important.
Since the WT's doctrines and practices are continually changing, would you say that thousands of JWs in the past were NOT "in the truth" according to present-day WT teachings, as they confessed?
YES______ NO______
Reply: See Scripture above. The core doctrines were correct, were they not?
Have thousands of JWs died believing and teaching WT "errors", according to present-day WT teachings?
YES______ NO______
Reply: No!
Did you know that CT Russell taught the resurrected Jesus is "Almighty" based on his conclusion of Matt 28:18 (The Finished Mystery pg 15)?
YES______ NO______
Jesus is not God but God's representative and, as such, so completely and totally acts on God's behalf that he stands in God's stead before the world. The Gospel clearly states that God and Jesus are not to be understood as identical persons. as in 14:28, "The Father is greater than I."
According to Matt 28:18, is it the Father or the Son who as "ALL authority" in HEAVEN and on earth?
FATHER______ SON______
Reply: ""All authority in heaven and on earth has been GIVEN to me." RSV
Something GIVEN indicates a time when you did not have it.
As a JW are you allowed to worship the one with "ALL authority" in HEAVEN and on earth?
YES______ NO______
Reply: YES. I will proskuneo him.
What is more important? Loyalty the the Truth or loyalty to the TruthTM?
Can you distinguish between the Two?
YES______ NO______
Reply: Barclay writes that there is truth in the statement that we cannot have God for our Father if we do not have the Church for our Mother. (see The Gospel of Mark-Daily Bible Series, p. 331)
If the light keeps getting brighter on the ever expanding knowledge of the truthTM then these questions must be asked as well as
Since the WT's doctrines and practices are continually changing, would you say that thousands of JWs in the past were NOT in the truthTM according to present-day WT teachings, as they confessed?
YES_____ NO______
Reply: See above
Are you sure the same thing won't happen to YOU?
YES_____ NO______
Reply: What core doctrines have changed in the recent past?
hector3000

hawk: Yeah no weasel room is right.
Reply: Isn't is amazing hawk how you come full circle.
You people complain of our faulty dependence on the Watchtower, yet you rely on exaclty the same thing for your own conclusions.
hawkaw

There has been absolutely no circle.
I have provided all of the facts from the Watchtower's own doctrine as per the 1976 and 1991 WT magazines which provide the official doctrine to the rank and file.
The doctrine is clear - be a NGO and associate/affiliate etc with the UN for any reason, a religion is then considered part of the great harlot that rides the beast.
Its the WTS's own words and there is nothing you can do about it. And it was the WTS who broke its own doctrine.
hawk
TheStar

Hector,
It seems you are quite the topic of discussion on this board lately.
I guess we just can't seem to get enough of your warm chrisitian love.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=27639&site=3
hector3000

hawk: The doctrine is clear - be a NGO and associate/affiliate etc with the UN for any reason, a religion is then considered part of the great harlot that rides the beast.
Reply: No hawk, that is your misreading of it. To be an NGO AND think of it as God's kingdom on earth, and say prayers to it is looked down upon. But the WTS has viewed it favorably also:
"Moreover, nongovernmental and nonprofit organizations were established for the sole purpose of accident prevention. To name just two:' ABPA (Brazilian Association for Accident Prevention) and the National Safety Council in the United States. Some of the objectives of the latter are "to further, encourage, and promote methods and procedures leading to increased safety, protection, and health among employees and employers and among children." Basically, the same objectives are pursued by similar organizations world wide....This extensive concern on the part of the authorities illustrates how big the problem has become and how much pain, sorrow and damage could be avoided if all of us showed genuine interest in our own welfare and that of others." 11/22 77 Awake
sadiejive

.
hawkaw

Well hector,
Its clear what paragraph 11 in the 1991 WT article (the official doctrine of the Watchtower) states. It is also just as clear what the WT of 1976 states. Try as you might you can't get around it.
It says those religious organizations who have NGOs that are associated/affliated with the UN are considered to be part of "false religion". Watchtower doctrine provides "no" exemptions.
Your last paragraph has nothing to do with the topic.
To put it bluntly, NGOs are basically a number of people who have created a "not for profit corporation" for a variety of reasons. NGOs come in all shapes and sizes.
The WT doctrine we are talking about has nothing to do with all of the NGOs in the world. It has everything to do with those NGOs who are religious and are specifically associated with the UN.
hawk
Dutchie

Hector, you ask:
"What core doctrines have changed in the recent past?"
Surely the "generation" doctrine was core to the teachings of the witnesses.
Also, as you said we humans are not vessels of absolute truth. But surely you believe that Jehovah is a vessel of absolute truth and the watchtower is supposed to be Jehovah's earthly organization. He supposedly directs us human through that earthly organization. We should then be able to trust that organization to always speak truth to us. That supposedly is what sets it apart from other religions.

Typical JW Apologist

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