Am I wrong or right please clarify if you know (page 10)

billythekid46

Boo hoo. You were "disfellowshipped" from JWN? That's hilarious. You can hardly compare getting kicked out of here to people actually being cut off from friends and family simply because they chose not to be Jehovah's Witnesses. That is the real tragedy. The tradedy is to believe your pain makes any difference. LisaBAMBA

Skeptical78

Thank u londo111 the explanation on what the new light is. Much appreciated.

DATA-DOG

Skeptical78,

You may enjoy this post. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/243088/1/How-the-Governing-Body-Solved-Another-Problem

DD

jgnat

billythekid, I say this in the kindest way. You are obviously hurting, and the rejection here does sting. Before hitting the keyboard again, it might pay to take a good long look why this site is so important to you. To continue to resurrect through new accounts to spew out your rants won't help you. Come back a new man.

Ucantnome

i don't think the new light does.

billythekid46

Wow!!!!! Shunned and Chastised by Teach jgnat and the JWN, please stop acting like JW's give me your apostate love. At least I was challenged by DD with the old Doug Manson method of arguments. Please people get new material. The apostate writings of Raymond Franz, Carl Olof Jonsson, W.T. Stevenson and others are old, like Russell, and Rutherford.

Jeffro

billythekid46:

Please people get new material.

I already have correct material. Why would I need something different?

The apostate writings of Raymond Franz, Carl Olof Jonsson, W.T. Stevenson and others are old, like Russell, and Rutherford.

I see you still cling to the JW's pejorative and incorrect use of the word 'apostate'.

I have not read any books written by Franz, Jonsson, Stevenson or any other so-called 'apostates'. (I have read Jonsson's online reponse to the Watch Tower Society's 2011 attempt to defend 607, but not before writing my own response.)

jgnat

billy, I've never apostasized, so that doesn't apply. I'm still talking to you so shunning doesn't apply either. As for new material, thanks for the segue:

Journey to God's House: An Inside Story of Life at the World Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses in the 1980s by Brock Talon (November 15, 2013)

Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs by Steve Hassan (June 14, 2012)

I Wept by the Rivers of Babylon: A Prisoner of Conscience in a Time of War by Terry Edwin Walstrom (Oct 4, 2013)

I still think Raymond Franz's book is the classic. It is not accusatory, mean, or bitter but plainly and humbly lays out the problems with the WT leadership.

Jeffro

It's pretty funny how billythekid46 claims that he has researched the subject of 607 for 'many years', yet apart from a copy-and-paste of someone else's work, he has presented zero research, and instead resorted to insulting everyone else who disagrees with his unstated opinions.

billythekid46

How do you people want to be address as. I’m open to suggestions.

Apostasy - the abandonment or renunciation of a religious belief
Blasphemy - speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things
Heresy - belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious doctrine

Heretic - a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.

Nonconformist, freethinker, Iconoclast, agnostic, atheist, nonbeliever, unbeliever, Idolater, Pagan, Heathen, Paynim. Since it seems you’re still preaching the bible, what would you like people to call you?

*The historicity of Daniel is disputed, but the story can be correctly contextualized.

This timeline can be confirmed by comparing 2 Kings, Daniel, Jeremiah, Josephus and the Babylonian chronicle BM 21946.

By reading the works of Herotus, The book of the Prophet of Daniel book 1899, The Assyrian Eponym Canon Book 1875, Chronology of Josephus, Babylonian Chronicles , Israelites New World Encyclopedia 2012, 2 Kings, Daniel, Jeremiah, and reading the works of writers such as Josephus, Ptolemy, Anstey, Bullinger, Charles F. Redeker , A Look at the Exile and Desolation Periods, A CONFIRMATION OF THE TRUE BIBLICAL CHRONOLOGY, 1971. THE BIBLICAL PROPHETIC YEAR, 1983 THE SEVEN CHURCHES OF REVELATION, 1989, THE BIBLICAL 70 YEARS, ZIONS TOWER of the MORNING (not to be confused with ZWT) and the point of reference in the Babylonian chronicles VAT 4956, BM 22047, BM 21946, etc, etc, etc. However story tellers fail to make it clear here to the readers, the Babylonian chronicles tablets are incomplete and they have a 20-21 year gap, and some historians have also reconsidered the Claudius Ptolemy Canon of Kings like Professor R. Roberts Newton that refutes some of Ptolemy’s rendition as been fabricated, and in further Study by Astronomers did find Ptolemy’s works to have contained many errors. Various other works of old and new authors, we can narrow down the time line of the destruction of Jerusalem. There are many variants to the concurred people of Judea. While most historians agree on many time lines that can be proven, the most critical point of reference is missing from the Babylonian Chronicles history for a precise and a definitive answer.

However in recent years, several historians have aided to pinpoint more precisely the destruction of Jerusalem by Crown Prince Nebuchadnezzar II within the reign of his farther Nabopolassar after becoming ruler on or about 627-625 B.C while Historians refer to the 5 Babylonian Kings, some new historians have also adapted a better understanding on the chronlogical Reign of these Kings. So how can it be possible for the Crown Prince Nebuchadnezzar II to have conquered or destroyed Jerusalem in 607? Recent historical understandings place Nebuchadnezzar II around the time of the Necho II insurgency over Judea, who defeated Jerusalem, removed Jehoahaz, and placed Eliakim to rule Jerusalem under the Reign of King Necho II. Quote* In this final battle, the Assyrians and the Egyptians fought side-by-side. Prior to being conquered by the Medes and Babylonians, the Egyptians fought against Judah - and Judah lost. This is the battle where Josiah was killed. The chronology of Judah places this event in 608 BC - but that is close enough to 609 BC when a 1 year margin of error is assumed and the uniqueness of having 3 Kings on the same year; Josiah, Jehoahaz, Jehoiakim Unquote*. Nebuchadnezzar II known as a Crown Prince, Viceroy, and General at that time, upon building his own Army continued his army westward and in or around the time 608-607-606 depending on which calendar you’re applying, entered the land of Judea and Conquered (Sacked) or defeated Jerusalem and pushed forward to meet the threat of the insurgency under King Necho II in Judea. The Crown Prince was unsuccessful in this campaign and withdrew his forced back to Jerusalem Where Jehoiakim surrendered Jerusalem to the General; he took prisoners and returned home under the instructions of his father Nabopolassar. The start of the 70 years dissolution predicated in the bible. Now was Jerusalem conquered (SACKED), destroyed or by modern references (Defeated) in 607? By many historians’ perspectives on time lines and calendar year, Jerusalem was Sacked, defeated, destroyed in between this time frame by extrapolating on this dates of 608-607-606. The New World Encyclopedia 2012 places Jerusalem destroyed in 607 B.C. However it is not clear if the Temple of Salomon was burned at that time. Since this is the crucial period of the missing peaces on the Babylonian Chronicles, many historians defining it as the 20 gap, either leave out the chronological order to refute the accounts of others, or they will just simply refuse to accept facts as given to them by heightening their own personal understanding or they will simply reject or deny they are incorrect through stubbornness. However this does not impede on the starting period of dissolution the Judean (Jewish) people would have to endower.

The most Chronological order embedded with historian, theologians, and archeologist is this. Marked in RED is the updated data.

609 Babylon becomes world power after conquering Assyria’s final capital, Harran. Seventy years of nations serving Babylon begin.
609 (late) Jehoahaz reigns for 3 months, then imprisoned
608-607-606 Jerusalem is Sacked or Destroyed by General-Prince Nebuchadnezzar II
608-607-606 King Jehoiakim begins his 11-year rule in Jerusalem.
605 (summer) Battle of Carchemish
605 (August/September) Jeremiah warns that Babylon will come up against Jerusalem.
605 (September) Nebuchadnezzar begins his Babylonian rule.
605 (December) Fast proclaimed in Jerusalem
604 (February) Jehoiakim becomes tributary to Babylon. Daniel* and others given as part of tribute along with some temple treasures.
603 Daniel interprets Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in his 2nd regnal year. Daniel not known by Nebuchadnezzar prior to interpreting dream.
601 3 years of training ends for Daniel and others. Daniel known as “ten times wiser” than all others.
601 (December) Nebuchadnezzar attacks Egypt.
600 (early) Jehoiakim rebels after learning of Nebuchadnezzar’s attack on Egypt.
599 Bands of marauders sent by Nebuchadnezzar against Jerusalem
598 (December) Nebuchadnezzar besieges Jerusalem.
597 (March) Nebuchadnezzar takes exiles including Ezekiel, temple treasures, and temple utensils. Jehoiachin placed on throne.
594 Jeremiah writes to exiles in Babylon, telling them Babylon would be dominant for 70 years, which is a continuation, not a starting point
590 (December) Zedekiah rebels, siege begins.
588-587-586 (August) Sacked or Jerusalem destroyed, temple burned . The first twenty of the seventy ‘weeks’ begins. This is the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar (18th when not counting his accession year; compare 2 Kings 25:8 & Jeremiah 52:29), the 11th year of Zedekiah. Accounts for 1 score
588-587-586 (October) Jews flee to Egypt.

In 539 BC Cyrus invaded Babylonia. The Persian army met the Babylonian forces at Opis, east of the River Tigris and defeated them. Cyrus now controlled much of the Near East from the frontier of Egypt, through Anatolia and Iran. He founded a new royal centre in his homeland, Parsagadae (city of the Persians). Proclaiming the release of the Jews in between 538-537-536

Nabopolassar (625 - 605 B.C.) gets rid of the Assyrians and then strikes against the Assyrians in a coalition with Medes in campaigns from 615 - 609.

Viceroy

In 607 BC, Nebuchadnezzar became viceroy of Babylonia. With that office came a major theater command.[7] The Babylonian Chronicle clearly states that this occurred in the nineteenth year of the reign of Nabopolassar, and backs this with an astronomical reference.[1]

Nabopolassar's first orders to his son was to head westward and recapture certain lands near Lebanon, including the western provinces of Syria, from the Egyptians. This occurred after Pharaoh Necho II had met and vanquished an Assyrian army at Carchemish three years earlier, thus establishing Egyptian hegemony in the region.[2][5][6] (This was the campaign in which King Josiah of Judah unwisely tried to thwart Necho and was killed in action.)

Nebuchadnezzar moved swiftly, met Necho and his forces at Carchemish, and routed them.[1][2][5][7] Nebuchadnezzar marched on into Judea, and accepted the surrender of Jerusalem and the pledge of vassalage of Jehoiakim.[7] This happened in the fourth year of Jehoiakim's reign.[9] The prophet Daniel and three of his friends (Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego) were taken hostage and sent back to Babylon at this time.[1][4] This is the beginning of the seventy-year exile, or "captivity," of Israel, also called the "desolation."

The Coming of Babylonia

In the summer of 606 BC, a new, brilliant general named Nebuchadnezzar marched toward the Euphrates River at the head of an army. Nebuchadnezzar's mission was simple: reassert Babylonian dominance against a troublesome Egypt and a rebellious governor of Phoenicia. On his way to meet Necho II in battle, Nebuchadnezzar came to Jerusalem for the first time and asserted Babylonian authority over the Kingdom of Judah.

In that year, in the month Kislev, Nebuchadnezzar arrived in Jerusalem.At first he arrested Jehoiakim and put chains on him, to carry him off to Babylon. (2_Chronicles 36:6 )[20] Jehoiakim pleaded earnestly to Nebuchadnezzar to let him stay on his throne, in return for faithful vassalage. Nebuchadnezzar agreed, but he also asked his overseer of eunuchs to seek out the best and brightest of the young men in the land for deportation to Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar intended to train these men for positions in his administration. Among them were the young prophet Daniel and his friends Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah .[21]

· Anonymous, Jehoiakim, Encyclopedia Britannica, 1911. Retrieved April 12, 2007, from LoveToKnow 1911.

· James Ussher, The Annals of the World, Larry Pierce, ed., Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2003 (ISBN 0890513600), pghh. 761, 794

· Leon J. Wood, A Survey of Israel's History, rev. ed. David O'Brien, Grand Rapids, MI: Academie Books, 1986 (ISBN 031034770X), p. 315

Neo-Babylonian Empire

Nabopolassar and his son Nebuchadrezzar II (604 - 562 B.C.) rule the western part of the Assyrian Empire. Nebuchadrezzar II conquers Jerusalem in 597 and destroys it in 586.

The name of Nabopolassar is not recorded in the Bible, but the events of this period of time are highly significant.

The Chronicle of Nabopolassar describes the activity of the king for the years 608-605 B.C. The struggle of the Babylonians with the Egyptians (Pharaoh Necho) for control of the western portion of the Assyrian Empire is also described. This included the kingdom of Judah and Jerusalem. The crown-prince Nebuchadnezzar, the most celebrated Babylonian king mentioned in the Bible, became the leader of the Neo-Babylonian Empire at the battle of Carchemish (605 B.C.). The British Museum item number is BM 22047.

Encyclopedia Britannica Necho II

According to the Greek historian Herodotus, Necho began the construction of a canal from the Nile River to the Red Sea, probably in response to the growth of trade in the Egyptian Delta, but an oracle persuaded him to discontinue the project. A threat developed in Mesopotamia, where the Assyrian Empire was falling to the Babylonians. Necho ordered fleets to be built on the Mediterranean and Red seas, and with them he undertook a Syrian campaign in 608 B.C. to assist the battered Assyrian armies. When Josiah, king of Judah and an ally of the Neo-Babylonians, was slain in battle at Megiddo, Necho replaced Josiah’s chosen successor with his own nominee and imposed tribute on Judah. In 606 the Egyptians routed the Neo-Babylonians, but at the great Battle of Carchemish (a Syrian city on the middle Euphrates River) in 605 the Neo-Babylonian crown prince, Nebuchadrezzar, soundly defeated Necho’s troops and forced their withdrawal from Syria and Palestine. Egypt itself was threatened in 601, but Necho repelled the enemy and continued to promote anti-Babylonian coalitions in Syria and Palestine.

Two years later (1819) Delambre also concluded that Ptolemy fabricated some of his solar observations and demonstrated how the fabrication was made. (Newton, MAPO I, p. 44) More recently, other astronomers have re-examined Ptolemy’s observations and arrived at similar results. One of them is Professor Robert R. Newton. In his book, The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy (Baltimore and London: The Johns Hopkins University Press, 1977), Newton claims that Ptolemy fudged, not only a large body of the observations he says he had made himself, but also a number of the observations Ptolemy attributes to other astronomers, including some he quotes from Babylonian sources. These include the three oldest observations recorded in Ptolemy’s Almagest dating from the first and second years of the Babylonian king Merodach-baladan (called Mardokempados in Almagest), corresponding to 721 and 720 BC.

Chronology in Josephus Book 10

(10) This battle is justly esteemed the very same that Herodotus (Book II. sect. 156) mentions, when he says, that "Necao joined battle with the Syrians [or Jews] at Magdolum, [Megiddo], and beat them," as Dr. Hudson here observes.

(11) Whether Josephus, from 2 Chronicles 35:25, here means the book of the Lamentations of Jeremiah, still extant, which chiefly belongs to the destruction of Jerusalem under Nebuchadnezzar, or to any other like melancholy poem now lost, but extant in the days of Josephus, belonging peculiarly to Josiah, cannot now be determined.

Previous (Israeli Labor Party) Next (Issac)

Jacob (left) prophesies the future of his

Sons' descendants, the Israelites.

Israelites

From New World Encyclopedia

The Israelites, as described in the Hebrew Bible, were the

Descendants of the patriarch Jacob, later known as Israel. Jacob's

12 sons formed the 12 tribes of Israel after emigrating to Egypt.

Under the leadership of Moses, they left Egypt and conquered

The land of Canaan, forming the nations of Israel and Judah.

When the Kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria in 722

B.C.E. , many people of the northern tribes were taken into exile.

Others emigrated to Judah, while still others intermarried with

Colonists imported by the Assyrians. In the sixth century B.C.E. ,

Judah was conquered by Babylon and many of its leading

Citizens were taken into captivity. Their descendants later

Returned and became known as the Jews.

Biblical origins

According to the Hebrew Bible, the Israelites were the descendants of the sons of Jacob, who was later

Known as Israel. His 12 male children were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Gad,

Naphtali, Asher, Joseph, and Benjamin.

In the biblical narrative, the sons of Jacob all migrate to Egypt where one of them, Joseph, has become the

prime minister. They remain there for 400 years, during which time they multiply to become the 12 "tribes of

Israel." Together, they leave Egypt under the leadership of Moses, during the Exodus. The tribe of Levi is set

apart during this time as a priestly class to assist the sons of the high priest Aaron and attend the Tabernacle

Which the Israelites carried through the wilderness. After 40 years in the wilderness, the Israelites finally

reach Canaan and conquer it. The tribe of Joseph was divided into the two half-tribes of Benjamin and

Manasseh, and the tribe of Levi, rather than possessing its own territory, served as a priestly group scattered

in towns belonging to the other Israelite tribes.

Strictly speaking, therefore, there were actually 13 tribes, but only 12 tribal areas. When the tribes are listed

in reference to their receipt of land (as well as to their encampments during the 40 years of wandering in the

Desert), the tribe of Joseph is replaced by the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, while the tribe of Levi

Disappears from the list. Thus, the tribes are listed in the following ways:

Israelite tribes in Canaan

The final chapters of the Book of Numbers and the entire Book of Joshua describe the initial conquest of

Canaan by the Israelites under the leadership first of Moses, and then Joshua. The Book of Judges describes

the Israelites' struggle to establish a national foundation as they face military opposition from the native

peoples, temptation from Canaanite religious practices, and war among themselves. The prophet Samuel

emerges at the end of the period of judges and anoints the Benjaminite Saul as the first king of "Israel."

Israelites - New World Encyclopedia http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/israelites

2 of 7 4/8/2012 9:06 AM

1759 map of the tribal allotments of Israel.

The Babylonian destruction of

Jerusalem.

Soon, however, God rejects Saul, and Samuel anoints

David, who leads a band of Judahite outlaws that ally

themselves with the Philistines until Saul's death.

Through a long civil war with Saul's son, Ish-bosheth,

David eventually becomes the second king of Israel, but

he faces several rebellions in which the northern tribes

and even elements of Judah reject his leadership. David's

son Solomon succeeds in creating a more truly united

kingship, although the northern tribes bristle under heavy

taxation and forced labor for building projects in the

capital of Jerusalem. After Solomon's death, a labor

dispute occasions the loss of the ten northern tribes by

Solomon's son Rehoboam. Thereafter, the northern tribes

are known as "Israel" while the southern kingdom is

known as "Judah." A religious dispute between the two

kingdoms centers on the question of whether all

Israelites must worship in the Temple of Jerusalem, or whether northern tribes can make their offerings and

pilgrimages at northern shrines and local high places.

Judah was populated by the tribe of Judah, most of Benjamin, some of Levi (who acted as priests and

guardians at the Temple of Jerusalem) and also remnants of the tribe of Simeon, most of whom probably

were assimilated into Judah early on. The northern kingdom was the more prosperous and powerful of the

two, but the southern kingdom—according to the biblical writers—possessed a stronger sense of spiritual

devotion to Yahweh.

In 722 B.C.E. the Assyrians under Shalmaneser V conquered the northern Kingdom of Israel, destroyed its

capital of Samaria and sent many Israelites into exile and captivity. In Jewish popular culture, the ten tribes

disappeared from history, leaving only the tribes of Benjamin, Judah, and Levi to eventually become the

modern day Jews.

Babylonian exile and after

In 607 B.C.E. the kingdom of Judah was conquered by Babylon, and

leading Judeans were deported to Babylon and its environs in

several stages. Some 70 years later, Cyrus the Great of Persia, who

had recently conquered Babylon, allowed the Jews to return to

Jerusalem in 537 B.C.E. and rebuild the Temple. By the end of this

era, members of the Judean tribes, with the exception of the Levite

priests, seem to have abandoned their individual identities in favor

of a common one and were henceforth known as Jews.

While Jewish history refers to the northern tribes as "lost" after this,

the remnant northern Israelites, who had largely intermarried with

people brought in by Assyria, were reconstituted as the nation of

Samaria. Disdained by Jews because of their mixed lineage, they

refused to worship in the rebuilt Temple of Jerusalem, believing that

God had commanded the Israelites to establish a central sanctuary at

Mount Gerizim in the north. Samaria continued to exist as Judea's

rival for several centuries, and its people were known as Samaritans.

Kingdom of Israel

Kingdom of Judah

History of ancient Israel and Judah

Gentile

Notes

↑ In the biblical narrative Joseph's time in Egypt is told in detail, while the story of the migration of the

other tribes to Egypt has the character of an addendum explaining how the Israelites all came to be in

Egypt even though Jacob was known to be buried in Canaan.

1.

↑ Conrad Cherry (ed.), God's New Israel: Religious Interpretations of American Destiny (Chapel Hill,

NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1998).

2.

References

Abright, William F. The Archeology of Palestine. Peter Smith Pub Inc; 2nd edition, 1985 ISBN

0844600032

Bright, John. A History of Israel. Westminster John Knox Press; 4th edition, 2000 ISBN 0664220681

Dever, William G., Who Were the Early Israelites? William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand

Rapids, MI, 2003. ISBN 0802809758

Finkelstein, Israel, The Bible Unearthed: Archeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of

Its Sacred Texts . New York: Free Press, 2002. ISBN 0684869128

Keller, Werner. The Bible as History. Bantam, 1983 ISBN 0553279432

Grant, Michael. The History of Ancient Israel. Charles Scribner's Sons, 1984, ISBN 0684180812

Miller, J. Maxwell. A History of Ancient Israel and Judah. Westminster John Knox Press, 1986 ISBN

066421262X

Redford, Donald. Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times. Princeton University Press, 1992.

ISBN 0-691-00086-7.

Credits

New World Encyclopedia writers and editors rewrote and completed the Wikipedia article in accordance

with New World Encyclopedia standards. This article abides by terms of the Creative Commons CC-by-sa

3.0 License (CC-by-sa), which may be used and disseminated with proper attribution. Credit is due under

the terms of this license that can reference both the New World Encyclopedia contributors and the selfless

volunteer contributors of the Wikimedia Foundation. To cite this article click here

(http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Special:Cite?page=Israelites) for a list of acceptable citing

formats.The history of earlier contributions by wikipedians is accessible to researchers here:

Israelites - New World Encyclopedia http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/israelites

6 of 7 4/8/2012 9:06 AM

Israelites (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israelites&oldid=119143710) (Mar 31, 2007)

Retrieved from http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Israelites

Categories: Credited | History | Philosophy and religion

Am I wrong or right please clarify if you know

Viceroy

The Coming of Babylonia

Share this