by Psychdigg 88 Replies latest jw friends
Is it as bad as Bill Bowen claims? Without hard evidence NO!!
Without hard evidence, you don't know how bad it is, so the answer is neither "yes" nor "no", it's "mmm... could be." You're guilty of the things you accuse Bill of.
COMF
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all your tears wash out a word of it.
HEY-THIS IS RONIN1:
NUMBER 1: THIS POST DOES NOT NEED INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE. USE THE DICTIONARY AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO USE CURSE WORDS OR THE LIKE.
NUMBER 2: THIS IS TO PSYCODIGG AND HILDA:
STOP THE BASHING OF BILL BOWEN.
WHY DON'T YOU TWO (2) BASH THE WTS?
WHY DONT' YOU BASH THE WTS FOR THEIR LIES AND COVER-UPS OF CHILD MOLESTERS?
WHY DON'T YOU BASH THE WTS FOR DISFELLOWSHIPING PERSONS WHO STAND UP FOR TRUTH AND RIGHTEOUSNESS AND FOR PEOPLE WHO REVEAL THE CORRUPTNESS WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION?
WHY DON'T YOU BASH THE WTS FOR PORTRAYING THAT THEY ARE FROM ALMIGHTY GOD AND THEN ACT AND DO THINGS THAT ARE NOT FROM GOD? (READ YOUR BIBLE)
WHY DON'T YOU BASH THE WTS FOR FOLLOWING THE FATHER OF THE LIE-SATAN?
WHY DON'T YOU BASH THE WTS FOR FINANCIALLY FLEECING THE FLOCK OF JW'S AND LIVING HIGH AT BETHEL?
NEED I GO ON WITH MORE THINGS YOU CAN BASH THE WTS WITH?
WE NEED MORE BILL BOWENS OUT THERE EXPOSING THIS CORRUPT ORGANIZATION.
THINK ABOUT THAT-BASHERS!!!!
THIS IS RONIN1
Shift key stuck?
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all your tears wash out a word of it.
Comf Gozz and others who don't have a clue about the meaning of justice.
Innocent until proven guilty. JW's don't have to prove they are innocent. Those who are doing the accusing have to prove guilt. Prove that the numbers of molested children among JW's is higher than a similar cross section of the general population.
Individuals may have been mistreated by local elders. Sue their behinds. Sue the GB if you can. But don't attack the religion and make sensational claims you can't back up.
Are you Dunsscot?
Comf Gozz and others who don't have a clue about the meaning of justice...
But don't attack the religion and make sensational claims you can't back up.
Where did justice enter into what I said? You said without hard facts the answer is no. I just pointed out that you don't know one way or the other without hard facts, and that, son, is a fact.
Now, about those sensational claims... I need a list of all the ones I've made. Hard facts, and all that.
COMF
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all your tears wash out a word of it.
Psycho,
Individuals may have been mistreated by local elders.You're an idiot.
I am a JW. And I know.
And you're inventing new ways of being stupid.
Prove that the numbers of molested children among JW's is higher than a similar cross section of the general population.What's this statistical nonsense about? It's all about numbers to you, right? How many, only a few, eh? JW policy protects child molesters. There are children who have been abused; just one is snough, or don't you get it? The religion is a haven for child molesters. Your elders knwo it. The GB and Brooklyn guys know it. And you come here and talk rubbish about justice. What is justice? The disfellowshipping of those who're speaking out? The silencing of Bill Bowen's silentlambs? Are you a child molester yourself?
Individuals may have been mistreated by local eldersThe Watchtower Society provides the infrastructure that supports that mistreatment. The local elders are their tools. And they use them to the full.
Sue their behinds. Sue the GB if you can.Good recommendation. May be later. Thank you. Newspaper reports hurting you eh?
But don't attack the religion...Dirty Watchtower-supporting child molester. You can run, but you can't hide.
*
Innocent until proven guilty. JW's don't have to prove they are innocent. Those who are doing the accusing have to prove guilt. Prove that the numbers of molested children among JW's is higher than a similar cross section of the general population.
But you seem so against even having any kind of investigation ?!
And the numbers of molested children among JWs doesn't have to be higher does it? It looks like it is but even if it was the same then isn't that a rather damning statistic for "Jehovah's Spirit led Organisation"?
Fact is: The WTS is well on the way to get a real bloody nose because they haven't protected children like they should but have been more concerned with looking after their own 'whiter than white' self image.
Now that truth is coming out and their image isn't worth didley squat and everyone can see them for what they are.
They don't like it.
You don't like it.
But STILL ... you don't "get it". You don't say "Hey, the WTS has behaved WRONG and needs to change". No, you just attack the ones who highlight the problem and are trying to do something to change things.
IN DEFENCE OF WILLIAM BOWEN AND IN REBUTE TO PSYCHO.
Everyone is intiteled to their own veiws and oppinions he has expressed hi and I will now express mine.
Argument:
1) Bill Bowen should be disfelloshipped because hes a rotten apostate.Look hes even been giving out personal information about members of his congregation. A poor 22+ year old man now will be subject to redicule because of his lack of intregity.
Rebuttal:
You do have a point in respect to the example Bill used to demonstrate hypocrisy within the JW organisation.
Now that Bill is really faymous that poor 22+ year old kid may have some of his dirty laundry aired.
I think Bill should anwser this for himself.
Right now though I can say that:
He never named names and it was just an example of personal difficulties he faced involving morality issues within the JW organisation. I dont think that it was meant to hurt the man personally and I never even thought about it untill you brought it up. Probally only his congregation members would have known about this thats if they read Bill material in the first place.
Bill Bowen has revealed his identity to the piblic and now has the WT legal depeartment down his throat. The legal department of a milti Billion dollar $$$ publishing corperation. Not exactly the mest of situations to be in.
There is no way I could see any JW apologist claiming the moral high ground in this incodent. To discredit him they would have to have something seriously incrimanating to even dent his reputation in the eyes of the public now.
They inforce a policy that protects pedophiles. And simply because he has the testicular fortitude to speake out about this in the hopes of protecting a few children he has to be shoot down because in the process he makes the JW religion look bad?
In regards to him in the process making the JW religious leades that inforce this policy look bad
I see your argument as this-
1) JWs are Gods Organisation therefore anyone who dares bring reproach unto his name let him be dammed.
2) THe Watchtower has steriotyped the characteristics of shuch people who decide to speak out against organisational policys/doctrine and labeled them as:
a) Looking for self glorification;
b) Spritually weak;
c) Turned their back on God Almighty;
d) Prone to immorality;
This can be easily be proven false by actually examing the character of many shuch individuals who take shuch stands in the first place and not solely relying on Watchtower says about them.
The large mulitnational corporations launch extensive PR programmes to discredit is activits who try to speak out about the micheif that goes on behind the scenes away from the eye of the public and WT operates no differently. Just because it has the label of a religion dosent necissarily prevent it from using underhanded,dirty tacktics to maintain their image and prevent loss of revenue.
Think bout Theocratic War Stragety which allows Witnesses to lie to anyone who they think dosent deserv to know the truth.
Let me quickly rebute this WT propagated myth.
a) Looking for self glorification.
This seems to be the typical WT rethoric.
If Bill Bowen wanted a name for himself all he would have had to do is remain a Witness elder and raise himself up within its ranks. From your perspective as a Witness what could be more glorifying than a high ranking position in Gods organisation here on Earth. Especially sooo deeeep in these last days.
The man gave up all he has known in his life as a Witness simply because he could not bare to think about anymore poor little children be abused and further humilated by an organisational policy which in effect call them liars when they seek help from authority within their congregation.
Now he probally has to face death threats, hate mail, shunning from his family and the dreaded WT legal department as soon as they get something on him.
But all he would have had to have done is remain a Witness and keep scilent and this would never had happened. He would still be in good standing.
Why do you continue along these lines of argument when they can so easily be disproved?
It dosent make sense to say that Bil was after power judging from the results that he has attained.
b) Spritually weak:
Anyone in disagreement with and furthermore speaking out about policys propagated by Gods visible organisation here on earth must be spritually weak! The nerve of those people bringing reproach upon Jehoavh's name.
I do not know what exactly is going on inside Bill's heart and therefore I cannot judge him there but I can definately judge his actions.
The man stands to loose everything for the sake of protecting children.
Wouldent Jesus be proud?
c) Turned his back on God Almighty:
Anyone who dears bring up arms against one of the Watchtowers policys and takes matters into their own hands has ineffect turned their back on God. He should have been humble enough to have faith and Waith On Jehovah. Who does he think he is to run aheaad of the Lord?
JWs like to quote the book of James pretty often saying it speaks alot about faith and Works.
Here is one ot their favourites.
"Faith without Works is Dead!"
So let me see... Jehovah will make everthing all better by himself without working through or using an individual to get the job done right? We dont need to do anything all we gotta do is ask and we shall recieve. One day Jehovah will make everything all better no need to force change after all who are you to modify gods laws.
Bill was just supposed to stand there do nothing and Watch while all the little guys and gals get preyed apon by the JW pedophiles who also have the liberty of going door to door. All he had to do was pray and then one day soon everything will be ok.
To this kinda reasoning I say: dont go to work... when you need your pay cheque so that you can put food on the table, fil the as tank pay the bills and pay for Watchtowers and Awakes! just pray that Jehovah will provide.
d) Prone to immorality:
Im pretty shure that anything Bill does from here on that could even be considered to be immoral will find its way in to the hands of the piblic. He is a celebrety now after all. Well at least within the JW community.
I alos wouldent be surprised if the WT's confedintial file that they have on him somehow becomes public knowledge.
As soon as he slips up the WT will be shure to catch him him.
Not to mention JW appoligist lke yourself who will bring to light any fault that they find.
And theres always the ones who will fabricate stories to discredit him.
In Summary
1) You dont like Bill because he makes the Watchtower look bad and have therefore labeled him with the usual JW mark of bad association, looking for power, greed, spritually weak, turned his back on JEhovah prone to immorality...
You have misrepresented his argument by stating that his numbers are not accurate. He has no solid facts to support his claims.
That may be so but it is the POLICY that has created the porblem in the first place. It is the WT that has created a haven for pediophiles.
But i'm shure that your kids are truly safe when they go to meetings judging from the small number of reported incodences of pediopheila within Gods organisation.
2) This logic dosent stand up to scrutiany because we have BOE letters which show that the policy does infact exist.
From Bills actions we can all see that he is a very courageous individual.
3) The WT was worried about the bad PR that the reporting of pedipheila woul have on the organisation so they tried to cover it up.
But as a result it has made international news which is the worst PR that the JWs could expect to indure.
Wouldent you say it serves them right?
jerome
The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and there may be hell to pay.
Psych,
I'm going to answer just because I want to. I thought that bill's cause was just another way to try to hurt the WT when I first heard about it, too. I couldn't care less.
Then I found out about an old friend who was molested. People that I knew had parents who molested. One person committed stat rape, (with a 14 YO), was disfellwshipped, and just five years later was an elder again (jail? I don't know). But to put any person who has sex with someone who is young enough to be his GRANDDAUGHTER should NEVER hold the post of elder again. A shepard?
Some people's motives may be exploitive as to this issue. That's a given. But, the fact remains that before I knew about this, I thought that pedophiles in JWs was an exaggeration, just a Catholic thing. Instead, I found five instances of people whom I met that were pederasts.
Wild, huh?
ashi
