Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

by Psychdigg 88 Replies latest jw friends

Cassiline

Psychdigg your comments in quotes,

“Parents have an obligation to keep an eye on their kids. Are the methods of child molesters some hidden secret? “
How naive are you? That you continue to repeat over and over IT IS the parent’s responsibility? Let me ask you a question what about the children WHO ARE being raped by their fathers and mothers in the JW religion?
A father that so viciously rapes his child from a tender age till that child becomes numb and can’t function in the society, as we know it today. A child who is terrified to speak out, afraid of reprisals, knowing the swift hand and harsh treatment that will ensue IF she says a word. A child who has been programmed not only by her father but the JW’s as well. A child who cries in the night and fantasizes of far away places, hoping that her fairy God mother will come and give her slippers, not glass ones but one that will carry her far away from the pain and humiliation.
So what say you when a parent is the pedophile? Go to the Elders, tell them of her pain and be told NOTHING can be done because there are NOT 2 witnesses? And if the allegations are repeated, that young girl will be charged with slander if she speaks out? So that leaves out police, school authorities etc. Do you believe after that child returns home after the fateful meeting with the Elders to report the abuse all will continue as before? NO it does not because the Elders tell her “elder” father. He becomes enraged and the abuse takes on a new form one so vile and filled with hatred and unspeakable acts the child slips away more into her “world” the only world that is free from pain.
Then you go on to ask are the methods of child molester’s secret? Take the above referenced child, a woman now with 2 beautiful children of her own. This woman explicitly and repeatedly tells her little ones, Never, Never let ANYONE touch you in a bad manner. Explains what good touch and bad touch are assures the children Mommy is here come to me if ANYONE EVER does anything that feels uncomfortable to you. She thought she covered all the bases with her 2 small angels. She knows the signs she experienced them first hand. BUT what she failed to recognize is pedophiles work in so many manners that she did not say all she could. Did not warn enough. She now hates herself for failing her little ones.
What Psychdigg of the molester that tells your little one that they will kill their mommy and their kitty if they repeat what he has done to them.
Psychdigg,
“There should be at least one chapter in the Young People Ask book about resisting the sneaky approaches of molesters.’
Molesters are cunning and in Every place imaginable. Yes Psychdigg molesters ways are secret and malevolent. No matter how much you prepare a child no matter what you say they can find a small crack and break into your world shattering all that you once held precious and create pain so great that one may feel they never be released from its grip.
Psychdigg,
“Combine that with problems of false memory and the hysteria that surrounds this issue and I would say that there is no permanent policy in place anywhere that is 100% adequate.”
Psychdigg,
“Our animal and even early human ancestors thought nothing of grabbing siblings or any female in the troop that smelled like she was ripe irrespective of age.”
With this comment Psychdigg are you implying that molesting is okay because YOU claim that it’s a human trait? Something that follows us into the present? Something that is degrading to all children was accepted in the past so “oh well” one is going to have to deal with it today? Ok deal with it, REPORT any and all accusations of child abuse to authorities. Forget about a 2-witness rule and let “Caesars” laws have a stab at the accused molester. I do agree with one of your points about mass hysteria looking at the McMartian(SP) Daycare Case. BUT things have changed because of that very case interviewing techniques have changed and are under a magnifying glass so to speak. SO one may not “coach” or leave false memories. It has advanced to the point that if parent coaching was involved it is usually quite apparent.

Psychdigg,
“You never hear of the many cases the JW's have handled that turned out well. That's the nature of the situation. “
The nature of the situation Psychdigg is that the JW’s have a closed, close knit “family” that does not allow for one to hear if a Molesters case has turned out “well”. What is your opinion would be a case that turned out well? Are you aware of the rate of recidivism with pedophiles?
Psychdigg,
“One thing is sure. No Bill Bowen is going to impose HIS policy on the organization.”
Psychdigg,
“Who are you to determine what is a good policy. Your policy is simply one of shifting the process to public professionals. This is not a guarantee of "good" management of the situation. Each parent needs to decide what is best for THEIR child”.
What Bill is simply trying to do is change an antiquated law i.e., 2-witneses and keeping the congregations silent about who has confessed to molestation so one knows when a pedophile is in their presence IMO and allow all accusations of molestations to be heard.
Megans Law allows that all molesters register so that one may be aware of their children’s acquaintances, friends etc. I ask you Psychdigg why do you think that this law was passed? My belief is that pedophiles are mysterious in their ways and cunning to the point that you Psychdigg may very well be on good terms with someone who may whittle their way into your life or perhaps a friends life and destroy all that may be precious to you without your even having the slightest inclination that it is or has happened until its too late.
C
When the pain of being where we are, becomes greater than our fear of letting go...we will risk and heal and grow.
one

Psychdigg,
why it took you so long to react to bowen's posts?
why jump in at this advance state of affairs?
why are you mentioning legal implications?
did you read simon's topic "when the x hits the fan"? it was posted yesterday...
can you say anything good about bill?
can you say anything bad about the wt?
then you suggest sueing elders not the wt... (sort of scape goats)
who designate and train the elders?, wt is ultimately responsbile responsible for the training, supervision, discipline, control, evaluation and conduct of their employee/elders, jointly responsible for any damages claimed.
If you dont have an agenda, then what is was/is the reason for your well tought but "improvised" participation?.
anything in particular irking?
do you beleive in virtual re-encarnation?
have you read anything about dual-personalities?
do you happen to know if they have internet conection at crooklyn?
not my style but keyboard mademedoit
arachnia

I am a "cultural" JW. You've heard of the distinction between an Orthodox Jew and a Cultural Jew? I look to the Watchtower because they are my "tribe".(3rd Generation JW going back to IBSA)
Scandal is a modern past time. I feel bad that the Catholic Church has to suffer from this kind of accusation. Religion serves a strong function in reminding people that they are MORE than animals. But the MORE part is simply a thin veneer over our evolutionary history. There is a tendency of JW's to blame war on religion. This only happens when nationalism grabs religion for its own aims.
When you discredit a religion you are doing untold damage to the moral compass of its members. In the case of child molestation this doesn't make people safer. It exposes them to the poison of relativism. It is unfortunate that Bowen's attack on JW's is a result of his JW training - which tends to be anti-philosophical. He lacks a broad context.
By your comments regarding the function of religion, and criticism of the JW training as anti-philosophical, may I infer that you are an advocate of philosophy? I ask this because I agree entirely that the Watchtower is anti-philosophical, particularly anti-Logic. If you subscribe to Logic and philosophy, I cannot see how you can truthfully reconcile that with Watchtower teachings. If you do subscribe to logic and philosophy, how do you reconcile your trust in the Watchtower as a guiding post in your life, if their thinking runs counter to your own? "You cannot slave for two masters."
The press is an all too willing player in this. The result is that children will NOT be measurably safer.
Why will children not be measurably safer if exposure of the policy that has allowed them to be placed in jeapordy is exposed and thus, we hope, forcibly changed to insure their safety. Is your argument that this is not possible because the Watchtower will refuse to change or will not implement true changes, and will only pay lip service to protecting children in order to get the public off their backs? If that is not true, what is your argument here?
Children need to be educated to the dangers of molestation just as they are to the dangers of drugs. Some parents feel it robs kids of their youth if you educate them in the MO of sexual predators. Kids need to be taught that NO one ought to touch them in certain places. They need to be taught that they shouldn't look at dirty pictures etc.
I wholeheartedly agree that children must be educated about predators so that they can be avoided. However, I suspect most JW children ARE warned of these dangers by their parents and may also have been warned of this by programs at their school. However, they have been raised to believe that because JW's are "god's chosen people" and therefore can all be trusted - a "brotherhood of love and unity." Gaining a child's trust is a key element in the molestation process. Children generally feel safe in their little bubble of existance within the JW's because they have been told it's a safe place by those whom they love and trust, their parents, and the other JW's that they consider to be like family. Those that manipulate that trust in order to molest them are the problem.
You will never get rid of the predators.
If the JW elders are required to report pedophiles to the "worldly" authorities, there is indeed a very strong chance that the predators will spend time in jail. This protects children.
Further, (if and) when the predator gets out of jail and wants to return to the congregation, they should be marked as a pedophile so that parents can be aware of this person and avoid allowing their children around them. No, it's not an easy mark to carry. But they chose it when they decided to molest a child. Choice = Consequence. Besides, they are in all likelihood going to end up on the public sex offender list in their state, so letting other church members know that this person has the very serious and probable tendency to abuse again should be a moral imperative for the church leadership.
Cheers,
~arachnia
Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran
ARoarer

Psychdigg, how naieve of you to make the comment that children need to be educated about child molesters. Yes that is true and when,in my daughter's case when she was 12 and the schools were implementing that kind of information she did have the courgage to come forward and tell what was happening to her at the hands of her grandfather. Unfortunately he had molested her long before anyone would ever have thought to "educate" her. For, you see he would molest her when she was a little baby while my mother in law baby sat and left him with her. You see, Psychdigg, I never thought in a million years to ever have wondered if my baby was safe at the grandparents house while I was shopping or going to a movie with my husband, or in the hospital having another baby. Parents don't think about such things when they leave their beloved children in their care. Who would have educated my baby daughter from her sadistic grandfather. And guess what Psychdigg, Pedophiles don't leave any signs to see on your baby. Only emotional signs like feeding problems or potty training problems, or academic problems, things a mother would never attribute to grandpa. No you better get your thoughts straight Psychdigg, and stop blaming parents.
ashitaka

barb,
right, definitly right.
ashi
waiting

.
Psychdigg

Cassiline:
Most of your objections center around the difficulty in catching child molesters.
The hardest molester to catch is the parent. I don't know how you prevent that. The society is getting better at utilizing videos. Maybe book study groups could get together one night after the book study and the conductor could show a very explicit video to the group. I'm talking about a video that would have a child actor talk about being molested by parents. There might even be a segment with an adult threatening a child with harm to their parents if they tell. The video could end with a sincere invitation to talk to an adult they trust if something similar has happened to them. The Book Study Conductor could then re-state the invitation to talk about this.
They might even pay close attention to the reactions of the little kids and parents during the video. There are so many things that may be done that can improve things. Simply changing policy won't change things. You've got to go to the heart of the matter.
Does the fact that JW's haven't done something like this mean they are negligent? NO. Time will tell what JW's will do. They don't need Bill Bowen as the cheerleader or inquisitor.
I don't believe the molester has secret methods. The most important thing a molester needs is a block of private time with a child. Parents need to know where their kids are spending time. There is a difference between responsibility & blame. If a responsible parent discovers that their kid has been molested then they ought to go to the police. If the person that is being accused is a "brother" then they ought to be informed that they have 24 hours to turn themselves in or you will turn them in. If they are guilty they have time to prepare THEIR family.
larc

Psych,
The question still remains, where should the "brother" turn himself in, the elders or the police? That, is the critical question?
Cassiline

Psychdigg,
Perhaps you misread my comments/question to you, please go back and read my comments again.
Psychdigg, your comments in quotes,
“Most of your objections center around the difficulty in catching child molesters.”
My primary argument IS not the difficulty in catching the molester it is letting a molester continue in his/her behavior Even though IT has been reported to the elders.
Your Naiveté regarding what happens when a molester is reported in the JW religion is quite disconcerting.
Psychdigg,
“The hardest molester to catch is the parent. I don't know how you prevent that”
What may I ask IS so hard about an Elder Listening to a child relay events of abuse in his/her home and taking action against the offending party? If that party denies the abuse and there are not two witnesses to back the child’s claim then the child is dismissed and the offender is able to continue in his/her heinous acts.
It is a proven clinically that children do not lie when it comes to allegations of sexual abuse.
Albeit there have be a few rare cases of children wanting revenge on a parent, those who have been coached by a parent, and those who may have had false memories implanted at the time of interview with a clinician.
Psychdigg,
“The most important thing a molester needs is a block of private time with a child. Parents need to know where their kids are spending time. There is a difference between responsibility & blame”
This statement infuriates me beyond reason. WHY DO YOU KEEP BLAMING THE PARENT?
Perhaps I should have been a little clearer to you with the case of the woman’s children who were molested after she herself was as child. The molestation of her children took place not in the Kingdom Hall nor by any associated with it. The molestation of her children took place in an Episcopalian Church after she left the witnesses. This molestation occurred on Church property while in the on site daycare facility. (See; DOE 1, an infant, who sues by his/her mother/father et al v. Bruton Parish Church, et al.)
So if I am reading you correctly a parent is supposed to be everywhere every minute to assure that a monster who works in a church while services are going on is to jump up every five seconds to assure the fact that everything is fine and dandy in the nursery? To make sure he hasn’t, as his job describes, taken them to the bathroom and proceed to molest them there? What about school, field trips, times as parents when we are unavailable to our children? Education IS and WAS provided to her children as well as thousands of others who by some harsh mistake are in reality exposed to molesters IN EVERY walk of life.
Again I implore you to STOP placing blame where it does not belong and with those who ignore the facts and continue to let pedophiles inch their way into family’s life.
The statements you make seem to me that you do not have children. Remember a molester could be your brother, sister, father, mother, uncle etc. If you do have children do you constantly monitor their time spent with Grandpa for instance? As soon as they walk into the door do you immediately question did Grandpa touch you in a bad way? Of course you don’t. Because we feel we can trust family and that trust in turn sometimes leads to disastrous results.
Psychdigg,
“If the person that is being accused is a "brother" then they ought to be informed that they have 24 hours to turn themselves in or you will turn them in. If they are guilty they have time to prepare THEIR family.”
Is this a new policy set forth by the WTBTS? If it isn’t and you do as you just stated, you might find yourself in a world of trouble. Slander,and not following the societies guidelines. And you may be brought before a JC, trying to protect your child.
C
When the pain of being where we are, becomes greater than our fear of letting go...we will risk and heal and grow.

Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

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