Starting from a false Premise.

by Phizzy 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    We often see "starting from a false premise" enacted on here. Believers will start from the basis that there is a god.

    Bible believers will start from the basis that it is the word of god in some measure, and worse are JW Apologists, they pre-suppose that the first two are a given, and that their beloved Property Company posing as a Religion is god's organization.

    None of those premises have been proven, some have been disproven, but we are supposed to go along with them.

    Now, you may be happy to debate on that basis, in fact it is probably good "exercise", but in the end I find their arrogant, unproven assertions begin to really annoy me, and then I stick in what is known on here as a "Cofty", which is a short, succinct comment that points out the big hole in their presentation.

    The only thing you find then is, either the Apologist cuts and runs, or totally ignores your "Cofty".

    I think, even if we enjoy debating for a while with such people, at a certain point we need to call them out on their False Premise, or premises, otherwise a J.W lurking here may simply accept the words of the Apologist and gain nothing in the way of truth.

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    A JW apologist is completely different from a believer. There are many who have left the Borg and still believe in God and Christ. Many JW apologists can be dogmatic about the fact that WT is the "Truth" and the only organisation that is blessed by God.

    I think JW lurkers need to see that many ex JWs still believe in God, some may define God in a different way, some may become pantheists or deists, JW lurkers need to see there are a whole set of beliefs they can investigate and the investigation can last them a lifetime if they wish. JW lurkers need to know post WT Atheism is just one way to go.

    Kate xx

  • suavojr
    suavojr

    Very well said Kate! For any lurking JW, you have to understand that you have the option to study many different set of beliefs and you can come to your own conclusions. Don't allow anyone of us to impose what we believe is true but do not close yourself to new information, try to learn why the other side thinks and believes the way they do.

    Don't feel angry if you come here to debate and have to face hard facts...

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    .......or have to face the reality that what you considered to be fact, or truth, may be no such thing !

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    I agree Kate and Suavojr

    People may have lost faith in the WTS but they may still have a belief in God

    if the only alternative shown is atheism

    .

    .

    They may choose to stay thinkin'

    " Where else would we go ? "

    .

    .

    Nobody has proved either way that there is or isn't a God

    But the WTS have been proven to be false

    .

    .

    And that men have used variuos religious beliefs through the centuries

    as a way to control , than as a way to " Save the Soul "

    .

    .

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    They may choose to stay thinkin'

    " Where else would we go ? "-wasblind

    The only danger in this is they could jump out the fire into the frying pan and join anothe cult like the Mormons or even Hare Krishnas. I think we have a resposibility to always help lurkers and newbies think for themselves and help them understand that any high control group is a bad thing, but having a believe in a healthy group who don't try and control you could be a nice social alternative and help many move on with their lives.

    Kate xx

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I am not an evangelist for Atheism, but I know that to start with a false premise, or even an unproven one, is no way to reach a conclusion that can be trusted.

    It is also arrogant to use your unproven foundation for your argument to try to say that others are wrong, and should do or believe as you do.

    If you really are someone who is interested in getting at the truth, and/or coming to aconclusion that you can trust, you need to beware of false arguments of all sorts. Starting your argument with a fallacy, or false premise, is simply no good.

    Unless you wish to believe in Faeries and Unicorns.

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    I am not an evangelist for Atheism, but ..................- phizzy

    Well I have to say that IMO I am afraid you are mister. You quoted Richard Dawkins on a bible thread about the God of the OT. Richard Dawkins is supposed to be a Evolutionary Biologist not a bible historian, or scholar

    Now due to another poster I found out Bart D Ehrman is a bible scholar and I respect all he has to say on the matter. I listened to one of his lectures and found what he had to teach very useful, balanced and fair. But maybe he is just confirming my bias about the bible.

    love you to bits phizzy, Kate xx

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    What no unicorns!

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    " It is also arrogant to use your unproven foundation for your argument to try to say that others are wrong, and should do as you believe "__Phizzy

    I can't argue wit that Phizzy

    But what I can say, is that can be applied to both believer and Athiest

    when it come to thier personal belief about God

    .

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