Starting from a false Premise. (page 3)

KateWild

Filling the gaps in our knowledge with mythology is NOT a sound premise. - cantleave

I am afraid I disagree, looking at the universe for many is evidence of a intelligent creator, it not filling in any gaps. Many see complexeties, beauty, maths, science and other things in the universe that move them spiritually. This feeling is evidence of a creator for me, it's all the evidence I need. If an atheist believes this is filling in gaps, so be it. Everyone is free to believe what they wish.

A false premise is exactly what an individual believes is a false premise.

Children believe Santa will bring tham presents if they are good. When their parents give them presents they believe Santa thinks they are good. Believing in Santa is a false premise, like unicorns and fairies. How much harm does it do the child to believe in a false premise?

Kate xx

Phizzy

God is the product of Unintelligent Design.

KateWild

So in phizzy's opinion everyone that believes in God has low IQ. I am afraid I disagree. Kate xx

Phizzy

That quote , "God is the product of Unintelligent Design", is just a bit of a joke, but to get people to think perhaps.

What I would ask you to do dear Sam, is read the arguments that show Intelligent Design is not a good thing to believe in, to trust as true.

I think there are probably good threads on here on the subject, but if not then it is easy to research on the Net. We can both marshal "experts", including scientists etc on both sides of the argument, but I think the argument for Intelligent Design fails. I have looked at both sides.

KateWild

What I would ask you to do dear Sam, is read the arguments that show Intelligent Design is not a good thing to believe in, to trust as true.-phizzy

Whether or not something is good to believe in should be based on the probability of harm it will cause and how significant that harm is. In my life there are things that are out of my control that cause me and my family harm and stress. As it is not in my control to do anything to prevent it, this can be stressful.

Phizzy, you believe this is not a good thing. How does believing in God do me harm? Does it cause me stress? Do I behave in an unacceptable way? I have all the evidence I need that a creator exists. I have read lots of arguments on the forum and I don't think my opinion is hurting anyone. I enjoy talking about why I believe in God and why I think he does not care about anyone.

I don't think any arguments will convince me that there is no creator, but if an individual points out something logical to me and gives me proof that God is not real then I may change my view, but I am not in the mood to go searching for arguments to refute my beliefs.

We just disagree about the creator and thats okay. Lurkers need to know that its okay if everyone doesn't believe the same thing they can still respect each other and be friends.

Kate xx

galaxie

Surely all theists believe that god has had an influence in their lives which aids their decision making?

Whether it's through jesus, holy spirit or a supernatural directed organisation .

What then do they think of this influence if they decide to reject /leave that religion /organisation?

Would they have to believe that god , jesus, holy spirit had influenced them wrongly?

Therefore by still believing in god are they admitting the god they first trusted was false?

Why would he/she/it have allowed them to languish in a falsehood which they are now rejecting?

So if they still believe in god do they think its the same god?

If so what assurance can they have they would not be misled again?

Mmmmmm gods just cannot be trusted.better to rely on your own judgement about how to

LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE.

Phizzy

" We just disagree about the creator and thats okay. Lurkers need to know that its okay if everyone doesn't believe the same thing they can still respect each other and be friends. "

Some of my best friends are "Black, Gay, trannies,Gypsies," sorry I meant to say Believers. LOL

I don't know if belief in something either unprovable or perhaps erroneous is in fact harmful to you, or those around you, just because it is unprovable or whatever. But just because it does no harm, that of itself does not make it good to believe in, or trust as true.

Take for example the belief, much touted by JW's and other religions, that God will sort out the ills and evils of this world.

That belief can prevent you,or others from actively doing something to make this world a better place, it certainly has that effect upon JW's. So, such a belief is far from benevolent or harmless. It is malevolent and harmful.

It is also not so far removed from the belief in I.D , it is just an extension therof, but is the premise that it is founded on.

One that is unproven.

I was saddened to read your attitude as in this : " I have all the evidence I need that a creator exists." That sounded so much like the JW Elder who told me "I have enough evidence to satisfy me that Jesus chose the JW's in 1919". Had he really scritinised that "evidence " ?

(Sorry, I shall now be off-line for a while, but like the Terminator .......).

galaxie

Kate, can I ask you, is your god exclusive to you?

Which god is it?

If its the xian one although your belief may not do you harm personally

Think of the vast amount of harm brought about to others by followers

of this god this god actually according to some scriptures sanctioned harm

to people .

Why would you align yourself to this?

Then perhaps I'm being presumptuous and its not the xian god you believe in.

Best wishes to you

punkofnice

I agree Phizzy.

Questions that ALSO need answering before statements or questions are made include:

Is there evidence that Jesus existed? If he did was it in the way the bible portrays him?

Is the bible just a confection of writings bunged together by some religious blokes (the blokes the watchtower slags off ironically), or is there testable evidence that it is actually from god?

of course: Is there evidence god exists beyond sagan's invisible fire breathing dragon?

Answer these and if the answers are 'NO!' then the rest of the argument/question is knackered!

tornapart

I've stayed a christian even though I've dumped all the JW doctrines. For me christianity is a simple belief with no trying to shove it down other people's throats. I've enjoyed being able to look at things from all angles and understand the reasons why people choose not to believe in God or come to the conclusions they don't really know one way or the other.

The important thing for me is to enjoy what life is all about. My family, my friends, all my hobbies, travel, nature and all the other wonderful things there are. If it really does turn out that there's no God then what have I lost? Whereas if there is a God (and I truly belive there is) then anything after I die is a bonus

Starting from a false Premise.

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