Mr Freeze it will be a fly-by for most of us, like an airshow.
Atheists, here is a 'balls' question ---even for all---
by prologos 224 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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snare&racket
I forgot how informed and qualified you were prologos, do teach us more :P
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prologos
To just push the ball analogy along, ball games are played with rules. fixed rules, You dont TACKLE a golf-player you are competing against.
The Universe, player-less balls abey strict rules ( see bode=sequence above, 8 planets in perfct 5% sequence with two thrown in below minimus and max distance.) so:
these rules did nor exist 16 billion years ago here. how did that happen out of the nothingness of the pre -'big bang' void?
and these rules are enforced. try to defy gravity!
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prologos
S&R hi, --" you WHERE? " thanks for the complement on progress. I have come a have a long way baby!.
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Apognophos
Although it's not a satisfying answer, it's a fact that if conditions were not right for life, then we would not be here to point out how amazing it is that the conditions support life. In other words, we can only observe a universe that permits life. And it's not hard to believe that the universe requires some degree of orderliness for life to come into being.
Arguably life itself is just a higher order of thermo-chemical complexity than inorganic matter. So in other words, high complexity beings like us could not come into existence (or persist long enough) to talk about the universe if there were no rules like Bode's law, because chaos cannot create stable complexity.
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snare&racket
Prologos, I am sincerely glad to see you have started to discuss and consume real science knowledge. physics is a heavy place to start, but I did the same, physics is the language of the universe.
May I ask you, on what basis do you assume a god before the physics? Neither you nor I have the evidence or answers to take god out the equation or to put him in, that is the most honest position. But god is a hypothesis with no evidence, there is not even a reason to put god into the equation.
so prologos, why do you look at this new knowledge through the lens of 'plus a god who initiated it' ?
Why not start from scratch, use only what we KNOW to be true and see where you get to?
Maybe start from scratch with your source for the existence of a god too, the bible. Who wrote it, when, with what motivation, with what added in, with what taken out, when and why?
Maybe this will help you see why we haven't assumed his role in physics, whereas you assume it without question.......or evidence of it.
By the way, it takes about 5 years to do it properly, examine the bible I mean. I know I have done it, I know Cofty has done it, I know many here have.
Why not do it yourself, prove us wrong, or become a physicist and PROVE your god's involvment if you feel there is evidence for it. Infact you could write a paper now and change the world. Darwin was not even a biologist after all.......
All the best in your journey prologos, I have a feeling you will be in our camp one day, facepalming your old beliefs as we do now :D
snare xxx
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humbled
S&R,
A deer instead of a bull (It ran in front of son's truck) we eat in your honor. And a virtual hug from GramMaeve (((SnarlR))).
I'm not up to the discussion, but watching from the sidelines...
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prologos
S&R, that was a good read. I amfinished with the bible. I am just reading right nw EHRman 'FORGED" but wt wrongness (I used to have a web site on that).
One of the last tidbits was Gen1:1 is wrong wow, may be th hravens were created 13.6 billions years ago, but the EARTH was not, a 4.8 billion year newcomer assembled by gravity (and solar pulsations) from stuff cooked in Novae and the supers. BUT dedicated WORKER that I am and innovator, with a few US patents lucrative exploited, I can not imagine a work of art like th universe just happening. The fact that the Creator is hidden for us, he can do that and make us feel as master or supreme intelligence. (see my other thread on atheists unwittingly making themselvs to dogs.)so:
by bringing up (not the action that empties your inards) these oldy but goody creation arguments, hopefully in a more entertaining format, good learning will come.
I read Penrose, and he opines that the big bang was a "white hole"and information in some form passed from the eternal side to us here.
I like the analogy of the solar 'surface' where an upper portion, the 'Corona' is actually hotter than the layers below, some energy being transported in strange ways, magnetism? in defiannce of the normal way to have thermo-dynamiccing.
Laws and statutes seem to be the product of intelligence, notwithstanding that the law is an ass (sorry, donkey according to the RNWT), but the laws that have arisen in our universe work wonders for us. even if we perceive personal glitches.
Thank you for letting me speak on a forum, a thread that is reserved for atheists.
may be we can SNARE a BALL or two, with that tennis RACKET.
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snare&racket
"I can not imagine a work of art like th universe just happening."
How you can imagine things is not how we humans judge what is likely to have happened, we follow the data, we can't deny the evidence we find. Imagine and indulge in all the comforting wishful thinking you want, it won't alter reality a jot. It is evident that you have actually not read any physics from what you are saying. Have you ANY idea of the evidence we have collated for the current models?
Just so I know we are not wasting time, can you please answer.....
What books have you read?
What are our current models?
What evidence of the current models are you largely aware of?
What are our models and evidence for the formation of the laws ?
If you have to google or paste the answers in, then there is no point discussing this yet. its like you offering theories for how gravity works having no idea of the evidence or models for the theory of gravity.
Many a billion human beings have died ignorant of the reality of modern physics and biology, you won't be alone. Many a Roman died praying for a god you don't believe in, to receive them into their paradise. I am sure they found it comforting too.
We evolved to survive Africa. Quantum mechanics is not intuitive to humans. We couldn't have imagined quantum physics, yet it is so. Even simple math evades our ape evolved brain. I have seen math geniuses flumoxed by the monty hall gameshow example. People's minds are boggled at the idea that you only need 21 people in a room to have sufficient probability that likely 2 people will share the same birthdate.
What seem logical, what we can imagine, what seems intuitive..... is irrelevant to what is true. This has been proven over and over again.
also you offer no evidence, not a jot, just simply that you ignore all the evidence in favour of what you orefer to imagine. Why come here and discuss anything if that is how you choose to believe anything?
I just don't get it. To me is seems you are either delusional, which I do not beleive, or too proud to simply accept the reality of what we know in 2014. Rather than humbly accept how wrong we were as JW's and theists, it is easier for some to deny reality itself, openly choosing something more comforting, something they CAN imagine to be true.
I can imagine this is all a false reality, that you are all part of an illusion I am experiencing. I can imagine it. I could not prove it to not be the case. I could find that egotysitical perspective empowering and comforting. But none of this makes it true.
Follow the evidence prologos, you evidently don't have access to it. Maybe syart with 'A brief history of time' and 'A theory of everything' then maybe Lawrence Krauss's 'A universe from nothing'.
You don't have to agree with the opinions made about the evidence, but it is the quickest way for you to find out the evidence without going back to school.
snare x
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Viviane
That is the give away, that the equal points 3 and 96 point to 2 possible resonances. (google orbital resonances if you care to broaden your grasp. )
Look, I put up a chart showing your pet hypothesis was wrong. You have yet to show proof for your claim that most stars are in a binary system, yet you act as if others are the ones that should do your work.
Quit being lazy, do the work to show your ideas correct and then we can move on. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels. Sadly, when a topic like this comes up and there is an opportunity for real discussion, it's get's mired bad science, poor claims and outright misinformation like this being pushed and all the time has to be spent correcting all the misinformation due poor science education.
So, you still have all the work ahead of you to show two of your most basic claims. You are still at square one.