by FL_Panthers 102 Replies latest watchtower bible
Got a message from Panters......he was a bit upset and sad that he only had 10 post a day as a beginner, I tried to explain to him why!
We have to be patient, maybe he comes back another day for a chat! Now he is out of posts
I forgot to ask him about the KFC and beer, Outlaw. Maybe we will get the answer tomorrow.
Methinks he has been here before.
Sylvia
I don't know if this is allowed! I have a feeling that is not, but, I will do it anyway! I was asked to publish a PM from Panters.
" Well you guys are really friendly! Which is rare.
Once again, I have asked my elders many questions but they never give me any answers. I did manager to get hold of the book elders receive once they become an elder and that is very interesting to read.
So is the Watchtower part of the UN? Do the witnesses have any political involvement?
When did the ministry begin? All these questions my elders won't answer which is odd.
Guys, what are the key reasons for you leaving the truth? Please share!
I can provide Whipped Cream Vodka!
@dismissing servant will u post the above for me? Thanks"
If this is not allowed I hope a moderater will remove this post!
Hi FL_Panthers,
Here is a great talk, with scriptures included, that you can use to motivate the brothers:
DOOR TO DOOR FIELDSERVICE
In the July 1, 1995 issue of the Watchtower, in an article on baptism, under the subheading of "Requirements", it says:
"It is expected of the dedicated one …will fully bear his responsibilities as a minister, a preacher in the field service from house to house, and otherwise participate fully in the activities of the New World Society, to advance the proclamation of the Kingdom and uphold the true worship of Jehovah. The dedicated one must be a house-to-house witness as was Christ Jesus and the apostles to the extent of his ability..."
Let's analyse our beliefs about fieldservice as presented in this Watchtower article:
Firstly Interestingly, the Bible does not teach that door to door visitation was a biblical requirement for Christians in the early church; and it certainly is not even hinted at as being a biblical criteria for baptism. Just like so many of our organization’s other criteria for baptism, this teaching is totally extra-biblical…
Secondly there is no scriptural support that Jesus ever went door to door up and down the streets of Jerusalem or Capernium as this article maintains. This is simply WTS speculation…and again - totally extra-biblical.
Thirdly, in scripture, neither Jesus nor the apostles ever commanded, or even instructed Christians to go door to door as our organization requires us to do. There is no biblical command to go door to door anywhere in scripture. It's that simple.
In other words it is the WTS that specifically commands Christians to go door to door; not the Bible; not the apostles, and certainly not Jesus Christ.
In fact the only specific command given by Jesus relating to missions, as Outlaw so clearly pointed out, was “Go not from house to house” That commandment is found in Luke 10:7. where Jesus is sending out the 70 to preach.
The Greek here in Jesus’ command is Oikia ice Oikia - literally, house to house. And the command is: Go not from house to house. Of course one might argue that Jesus is talking about finding a worthy home to act as a missionary base while in any given city. And that’s true. But you see then “house to house” clearly does not mean door to door. You come to a city, you find lodging and you don’t move from there to another home.
Jesus wasn’t instructing the 70 not to go door to door consecutively down the street looking to another place to stay. He was merely saying don’t change your place of residence once you have found a proper home base from which to minister. Remain in that home till your work in that city is complete.
The point is “house to house” on Jesus lips had nothing to do with going consecutively door to door, down the street.
Actually the phrase house to house never means door-to –door down the street in scripture…and the apostles not only never commanded Christians to go door to door, but there is nothing in scripture to suggest that they, themselves, ever went door to door.
That’s merely the extra-biblical assumption of our organization
The question is: What scriptures does the F&DS rely on to support the idea that the apostles and early Christians went door to door… and that this should become an example that every Christian must follow today?
Well we essentially cite two texts to establish that the apostles and early Christians went door to door to spread their message. They are Acts 20:20 and Acts 5:42
In Acts 20:20 Paul is talking to a group of elders from Ephesus about his former ministry there and says:
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house. KJV
The Greek words translated as “house to house” here in Acts 20:20 are kata oikous. In this Greek phrase, kata (a preposition meaning in or according to) is combined with the plural of the noun oikon (meaning homes)…so literally we get “in homes” or “according to homes”. Now does Acts 20:20 imply Paul went “door-to-door” down the streets of Ephesus? The answer is no.
In Benjamine Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott published by our organization, Acts 20:20 reads "how I kept back nothing that was profitable; neglecting not to declare unto you, and to teach you publicly and at your Houses" That’s our own publication. In other words Paul was simply reminding these elders how he had ministered to them both publicly and privately in their homes. And the fact is that most modern translations do use the phrase "in your homes" instead of "house to house" and there is good reason for that.
We can see why when we c ompare Acts 8:3 with Acts 20:20. In Acts 8:3 we find almost the exact Greek phraseology “kata oikous” except for the inclusion of the definite article “tous” (meaning all) … that’s kata tous Oikous …So Acts 8:3 reads
But Saul continued to harass the church, and by going house to house and dragging off men and women he continued to put them into prison.
Of course the fact that Paul went house to house kata tous oikous, does not mean he went to every house down every block throughout Jerusalem…. Obviously, (and this is acknowledged by the F&DS), he invaded one Christian’s home after another distributively…., you know, like doctors long ago would go house to house, making house calls but only at the homes where they knew there were sick people who needed a doctor.
Acts 20:20 provides no grounds for suggesting Paul went up and down the streets of Ephesus knocking at every door as an example Christians must follow or be refused baptism.
OK, then How about Acts 5:42, the second verse used by the WT organization to prove first century Christians went door-to-door. The NWT reads
And every day in the temple and from house to house (kata’oikos), they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
Now the Greek phrase translated “house to house” here is kata’oikos The Slave assumes that kata’oikos means “door-to-door”. But we can quickly see that this interpretation is unwarranted when we read the exact same Greek phrase, in similar context in Acts 2:46
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house (kata'oikos), did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart. Acts 2:46
Certainly we can't believe that the apostles ate bread on every doorstep as they preached the gospel up and down the streets of Jerusalem
Since it doesn’t make sense that the disciples had snacks on every doorstep as they went from“house to house”…… kata’oikos does not mean door to door. Of course this verse simply conveys that the first Christians shared meals and fellowship at each others homes. Again, “house to house” had nothing to do with going “door-to-door”.
Our Organization specializes in teaching the traditions of men" as if they were the commandments of God. We do know that the apostles taught people both publicly and privately. It is pure speculation to conclude that they went up and down streets banging on doors on Saturday or any other morning before heading to Friendly's for coffee.
The conclusion is this: The Faithful Slave has no biblical authority to make door to door fieldwork a criteria for baptism, or a requirement for Christians who are already baptized.
LOL @ baltar and Outlaw!
Hi FL_P and welcome!
We used to have the FLQ in Canada... but that's another story.
I'm a born-in never baptized. My Dad was a Ministerial Servant for over 25 years after he retired. He never convinced 1 single soul to join "The World's Happiest People". Now that he is aging and has dementia, he can no longer 'witness'. He can, however, tie his shoe laces into multiple knots.
Some of my fave scriptures are:
Exodus 15:3, Exodus 19:16-19, Isaiah 45:7, 1 Thessalonians 5:21, Colossians 2:15, Song of Solomon 2:3, Matthew 23:2,4, Luke 21:8 ....
... and now, thanks to baltar, Ezekiel 23:20.
Hey Panthers. First things first. Did you guys really give up steve smith!? I'm not sure how I feel about that bro.
As far as this board, yes there are people of all sorts here. Some ex-JW's, many current ones, some appointed men and pioneers, etc... I myself stepped down not too long ago because I could no longer in good conscience teach a specific doctrine that I was required to from the platform.
It was either go against my conscience, or stop going. It has been very difficult. I have been villified, lyed about, and claim to be "going against the slave", or have "pre-apostate tendancies". What does that even mean?
I encourage you to take everything you read and hear.....here or in the congregation....with a grain fo salt. Pull up a chair, do a little research, allow yourself to think.
In short.....to quote Steve Smith......"Ice up son!"
Knowing that probably the last thing most of the b/s want to do is actually go from house to house,taking the field service arrangement would be a great opportunity to use scriptures like...
Mark 6:30,31. Jesus encouraged rest. Probably this is a good opportunity to apply that encouragement.
You could assign one group to go to a peaceful place like the library and take a nap to meditate on Jesus words.
Another group could be assigned to park witnessing.
Ecclesiastes 11:1 could be applied. Sitting by a lake and throwing the tracts and magazines in it would be very therapeutic.We never know what the result of that could be.
If there are enough to make another group they could be assigned to go to the local cemetery. Ps 115:17. There they can find a lot of people resting and not praising Jehovah, so it would be a good place to practice presenting the magazines. The reaction from the those RIP would probably be about the same as the one that would be found in the the house to house work, so it would be beneficial to hone witnessing skills.
Probably those scriptures would be good.
Welcome, FL Panthers,
If you're still reading, I'm in Florida, too and joined the site one year ago. We've had quite a situation in my former hall, involving a jw elder pedofile who molested 7 boys. He was just sentenced to life. I mention this as you mentioned someone else who sounds like they abused a child. Googling "jehovah's witnesses child abuse" a little over a year ago is what eventually led me here. Does the lack of a policy to protect jw children from pedofiles bother you, too?
As to your opening question, no scriptures come to mind. I seem to have filled that area of my mind with learning about cognitive dissonance, logical fallacies, information about science and art history.
Keep reading. There's a lot to learn from this site.
My my my, what a privilege. Certainly the holy spirit is blessing your congregation.
Nobody wants no stinkin scriptures - they want to know is it Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts for the break at 10:30.
I was in charge of mid week for several years, the key is short and sweet. Don't rock the boat and arrange groups beyond the socially accepted pre-established groups. And remember the break, never - neverforget the break.
Welcome, welcome, welcome, PANTHERS!
I am still in, in "good standing" (with most in the cong!) but am being monitored and followed in the KH by Elders as a result of some of my answers and conversations. They'd rather believe JW.ORG than what the Bible really says!!!
Check out Revelation 1 - 12, (especially verse 12) and compare what the Org says in the Watchtower Library about "new scrolls".
You may be surprised to learn the following -
1) The scrolls are not "new". (an interpolation)
2) The scrolls (plural) are used to judge the dead who are resurrected - not to teach them "wonderful new things"!
3) These scrolls are opened after Satan is destroyed - not during the 1000 year reign!
Use such truths to discover The Truth About The Truth, (TTATT) and do your very best to enlighten those who need to be!
