by kneehighmiah 57 Replies latest jw friends
Friday Afternoon
2:00 Symposium: What Must Be Kept in Second Place?
- Concerns About Health
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If this is true, why are DOs, COs and other Bethel Big Wigs provided with health insurance every year, paid for by the rank-and-file ? Why is there a full-time doctor on the Bethel staff ?
Shouldn't the WT corporate Big Cats be willing to relegate "concerns for health" to the "not-very-important" category, just like the R&F are told to do????
Hypocrites!
They are sneaky propagandists methinks, Lisa.
9:40 Symposium:Anticipate Future Kingdom Blessings!
....New Scrolls (Revelation20:12)
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Of course, nowhere in this verse is the word "new" ever used, but please ignore that fact....another WT fiction that will go completely unnoticed by JWs.
Please clarify in "What must come second place, Health". Does that mean if you have cancer, or something as serious, the kingdom comes first instead of live-saving medical appointments??
Please clarify in "What must come second place, Health". Does that mean if you have cancer, or something as serious, the kingdom comes first instead of live-saving medical appointments??
my guess at a JW answer:
"Oh, No, no, no, no! That is not what that means. ....but yes, 'the Kingdom' must come first, before anything else, even concerns over health."
Since learning TTATT and leaving, Saturday mornings are a real blessing, as they probably are for many of you. Slow moving, mellow music, strong coffee, recliner sitting ….. a true respite to a busy week. Part of my Saturday slow-down is to catch up on this site and have a few chuckles with my friends here along the way.
This post caught my eye…. Well, even though I’ve been away for a while, this got my blood boiling! They are ‘SPINING” a failed prophesy into a triumph! It shouldn’t have surprised me at all, as the lies are getting bigger and bigger. But it is so bizarre; I had to make sure the program was real. It read like something that could be posted as a spoof, you know just for sh**s and giggles. But it’s TRUE!
Although as Christians we endeavor to love and show mercy, I cannot help but wish vengeance against them. When will they get their total comeuppance?
Lisa -But no quotes on 'Those who help Christ's Brothers.' What does that mean?
It means the others are direct quotes from the bible but the last one is not a direct quote but a statement based on their interpretation of Matthew 25 - and boy do they self-servingly twist the meaning of Matthew 25! That text is clearly about charitable acts toward christians, but they twist it to mean helping the Watchtower spread its propaganda from house to house.
It means the others are direct quotes from the bible but the last one is not a direct quote but a statement based on their interpretation of Matthew 25 - and boy do they self-servingly twist the meaning of Matthew 25! That text is clearly about charitable acts toward christians, but they twist it to mean helping the Watchtower spread its propaganda from house to house.
Yes. It will be interesting to see what they say in this part of the talk. They should have made it: Those that help "the least" of Christs brothers
..because that is the point of the verse...
10:20 Symposium:Who Will Inherit God’s Kingdom?
Those “Who Are Poor” (Luke6:20; Matthew5:3)
Those Who “Become as Young Children” (Matthew18:2-4)
Those “Persecuted for Righteousness’ Sake” (Matthew5:10)
Those Who Help Christ’s Brothers (Matthew25:34)
Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably;+ 36 naked* and you clothed me.+ I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’+ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?+ 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’+
Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, + you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire + prepared for the Devil and his angels. + 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ + 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, * + but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
and the program has a part in which they beg for more elders and MS's.
metatron
Health: there have been articles about bizarre treatments that suck away funds they could give to the WTS and jws that proseltize other jws even getting involved in sales promotions.
*** w94 12/15 pp. 17-18 United in the Perfect Bond of Love ***Careful About Persuasive Arguments
20 There are, of course, other ways in which Christians might be ‘deluded with persuasive arguments’ or empty deceptions that interfere with ‘being harmoniously joined in love.’ The office of the Watch Tower Society in Germany wrote: “One case led to controversy, publishers and even elders taking sides over types of therapy employed by a brother.” They added: “Because of the wide variety of methods used and the large number of patients, this is an area that is open to controversy and, if therapeutic methods have spiritistic undertones, may invite danger.”—Ephesians 6:12.
21 Christians want to remain alive and healthy so that they can worship God. Nevertheless, in this system we are subject to aging and sickness that result from imperfection. Rather than stress health issues, we ought to concentrate on the real solution, for us and for others. (1 Timothy 4:16) Christ is the focal point of that solution, even as he was the focus of Paul’s counsel to the Colossians. But remember, Paul indicated that some may come with “persuasive arguments” turning our attention away from Christ, perhaps toward diagnostic methods, treatments, or diets.—Colossians 2:2-4.
22 People around the globe are barraged by advertisements and testimonials about all sorts of treatments and means of diagnosis. Some of those are widely used and recognized; others are widely criticized or subject to suspicion. Each person is responsible to determine what he will do concerning his health. But those who accept Paul’s counsel found at Colossians 2:4, 8 will have protection against being deluded by “persuasive arguments” or “empty deceptions” that lead astray many who, lacking the Kingdom hope, are desperate for relief. Even if a Christian is convinced that a certain treatment seems good for him, he should not promote this in the Christian brotherhood, for it could become a subject of widespread discussion and controversy. He thus can manifest that he highly respects the importance of harmony in the congregation.
*** w94 12/15 pp. 19-22 A Health Test for You? ***
A Health Test for You?
The Watch Tower Society does not make recommendations or decisions for individuals on medical and diagnostic practices. If certain practices have aspects that are questionable in the light of Bible principles, however, attention may be called to these. Then each person can weigh what is involved and decide what to do.
Dear Brothers: I would like your opinion. A [certain health practitioner] seems to have good success, but a method she uses makes me suspicious. . . . By examination she determines what is wrong. Then to find out what kind of medicine or how much of it to use, she puts a medicine bottle next to the skin near a gland or an organ. She tries to pull down the patient’s raised arm. The kind of medicine or the amount of it is determined by the force she needs to pull the arm down. The theory is that electrons, like a current, travel from the medicine through the metal cap of the bottle to a body part, strengthening it. Is this like water witching?
THIS letter from Oregon, U.S.A., concerns a practice that some use to determine nutritional needs, weigh emotional issues, assess memories, and resolve questions about daily life. However common the practice is, are the writer’s suspicions justified?
Health—At What Cost?
Since ancient times, people have tried to understand why they get sick and how to get well. The Israelites had an advantage because they knew that they were sinners, and they had laws from God that helped them to avoid contracting or spreading many diseases. (Leviticus 5:2; 11:39, 40; 13:1-4; 15:4-12; Deuteronomy 23:12-14) Still, God’s people also sought help from qualified physicians of their day.—Isaiah 1:6; 38:21; Mark 2:17; 5:25, 26; Luke 10:34; Colossians 4:14.
What a contrast to people in ancient Babylon and Egypt! Their “doctors” had some remedies based on natural ingredients, yet many of their “treatments” would now be labeled quackery. An Egyptian hieroglyphic text tells of a physician treating blindness with a vile potion of pigs’ eyes, antimony, red ocher, and honey. This concoction was poured into a sick person’s ear! An ancient testimonial claims that this treatment was “really excellent.” Its strangeness or mystery may even have enhanced its appeal.
Babylonians and Egyptians often invoked occult powers. A priest/physician might ask a patient to breathe into the nostrils of a sheep, believing that some force, or energy, could flow from the patient into another creature and produce an effect. The sheep was killed, and its liver supposedly could reveal the patient’s sickness or his future.—Isaiah 47:1, 9-13; Ezekiel 21:21.
Of course, a God-fearing physician in ancient Israel would not have employed spiritistic practices. God wisely commanded: “There should not be found in you . . . anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer . . . For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah.” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12; Leviticus 19:26; 20:27) The same applies to God’s Christian servants today. Caution is in order.
In recent years many people have turned to “alternative” diagnostic techniques and treatments. This is basically an area for personal decision. (Matthew 7:1; compare Romans 14:3, 4.) It would, of course, be sad if any Christian became so preoccupied with controversial health issues that these overshadowed the ministry, which is the one sure way to save lives. (1 Timothy 4:16) The Bible does not say that in the new world sickness will be cured and perfect health achieved through medical approaches, herbs, diets, or holistic regimens. Actually, full healing will be brought about only by means of forgiveness of sin on the basis of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Isaiah 33:24; Revelation 22:1, 2.
What Forces Are Involved?
What might a Christian want to consider in making his own decision about the practice of muscle testing mentioned in the opening letter?
Certain modes of testing the strength or response of muscles are part of conventional medicine, and few would question their validity. For example, poliomyelitis can weaken muscles, and therapy for this may involve what is called kinesiology—“the study of muscles and muscular movement.” Such kinesiology is also used in rehabilitative therapy for stroke victims. Most people would understand such treatment.
But what of the muscle testing described in the letter at the start of this article? This sort of “kinesiology” has been used in an attempt to find out whether certain foods, herbs, or vitamins might help or harm a person. As often practiced, the individual holds out his arm, and a practitioner presses down to test muscle strength. Next the subject puts a nutrient or other substance in his mouth, on his abdomen, or in his hand. Then the arm muscles are retested. It is claimed that if he needs that nutrient, his arm will test stronger; if it is bad for him, the muscles will be weaker.
Some who have tried this believe it works and that the effect is based on forces within the body. They reason that there are many things that modern science cannot explain but that occur or can be observed. Thus, they claim that there might be lines of energy or interaction between forces and substances, even if physicians have not yet discovered or accepted these.
On the other hand, the book Applied Kinesiology states: “Sometimes [books] teach that chemical substances, such as nutrition, are evaluated by holding the substance in the hand and testing the muscle. There is no evidence that suggests any reliability in this type of testing. . . . A philosophic attitude can be so strong that operator prejudice interferes with obtaining accurate information in the testing process.” “An examiner who is experienced in manual muscle testing can easily make a subject’s muscle appear weak or strong at his discretion by simply changing the . . . test very slightly.”
Beware!
However, some muscle testing goes beyond this. Consider what is termed “surrogate testing.” This might be practiced in the case of an old person or a baby too weak to be tested. While a surrogate touches the baby, the practitioner tests the surrogate’s arm. This has even been applied to pets; the surrogate’s arm is tested while he is resting a hand on the collie, German shepherd, or other sick pet.
It is not for us to judge such actions, but you might ask, ‘Are bodily forces behind these effects?’ Scientists have proved the existence of cosmic rays, microwaves, and various types of electromagnetic radiation. Yet, do all creatures, even infants and house pets, have within them forces that can flow out and produce a testable effect on a second person? The Babylonians thought that forces could flow out to and affect a sheep. You might ask yourself, ‘Do I believe that something similar can happen with humans or animals today? Or might the effects have another explanation?’
Some healers claim to measure a person’s “forces” with such devices as metal spirals or pendulums. These supposedly move as the healer’s “energy field” interacts with that of the patient. One practitioner and writer in this field, who had once been a research scientist, sometimes diagnoses with the use of a pendulum. She also asserts that she can visualize “the human energy field” or colored aura said to surround individuals. She claims to use “internal vision” to look into a body to see tumors, blood cells, or microbes, and to view the past.
As noted earlier, gauging forces by means of arm strength has been used to test emotions. A widely distributed book said: “If you desire to throw [in] a slight emotional test at the same time, ask audibly ‘Do you have a problem?’ and retest. This will occasionally weaken the arm if the nutrition is poor.” Some use such a test “to identify the age at which specific physical, emotional or spiritual trauma” occurred. It is also employed to make ‘yes or no’ decisions on daily matters.
Likely, many who do such muscle testing (kinesiology) would say that their practice differs from what was just described, that no spiritism is involved, or that they do no emotional testing. Nevertheless, is what they do still based on a belief in forces within each human that can be tested or seen only by certain people claiming special powers?
Christians do not take such issues lightly. God counseled Israel: “New moon and sabbath, the calling of a convention—I cannot put up with the use of uncanny power along with the solemn assembly.” (Isaiah 1:13) When that nation became apostate, they were ‘practicing divination and looking for omens.’ (2 Kings 17:17; 2 Chronicles 33:1-6) Evidently they sought information by special rites, and then they spoke “what is uncanny.”—Zechariah 10:2.
Some muscle testing may be innocent, performed with no harm to patient or practitioner. Clearly, though, some may have uncanny or supernatural aspects, such as internal vision, mysterious auras, and the use of a pendulum. Christians must not practice uncanny powers. They should not even experiment with such, for they are not curious about the deep things of Satan. (Revelation 2:24) Rather, there is good reason to exercise caution about anything that might seem related to the practice of spiritism, which God’s Word condemns.—Galatians 5:19-21.
What a practitioner does is his responsibility, and it is not our intent to review and pass judgment on each one’s claims or procedures. Even if you feel that some of these practices do involve uncanny power, it is clear that many who tried them did so in all innocence, with no thought of involvement in spiritism. It may have been just a reflection of their desperate desire for good health. Still, some who have been involved in such practices have decided later that any potential physical benefit was not worth the spiritual risk.
Again, each individual must resolve what to do regarding such personal matters. Yet, Christians should remember God’s counsel: “Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps.” (Proverbs 14:15) That applies to health claims too.
Satan is eager to distract God’s servants from true worship. The Devil would rejoice if he could do so by getting Christians fascinated with other interests. He would be even more delighted if they became fascinated with things that are, or seem to be, uncanny practices that might draw them into spiritism.—1 Peter 5:8.
Though Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, Jehovah God’s attitude toward occult practices has not changed. As noted earlier, God commanded the Israelites that “anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, or one who binds others with a spell” was not to be found among them. “Everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah . . . You should prove yourself faultless with Jehovah.”—Deuteronomy 18:10-13.
How wise it is, then, for Christians today to keep on “the complete suit of armor from God . . . because we have a wrestling . . . against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places”!—Ephesians 6:11, 12.
[Footnotes]
Many people still consult shamans, witch doctors, or similar healers. A shaman is “a priest who uses magic for the purpose of curing the sick, divining the hidden, and controlling events.” A witch doctor, or shaman, might combine herbs with spiritistic practices (invoking mysterious forces). A careful, loyal Christian would shun such involvement in spiritism, even if it seemed to offer a cure.—2 Corinthians 2:11; Revelation 2:24; 21:8; 22:15.
This is a general description, but the testing process may vary. For example, a subject may be asked to press his thumb and forefinger together, and the practitioner tries to pull them apart.
She writes: “How do these seemingly miraculous events take place? . . . The process I use is called laying-on of hands, faith healing or spiritual healing. It is not at all a mysterious process, but very straightforward . . . Everyone has an energy field or aura that surrounds and interpenetrates the physical body. This energy field is intimately associated with health. . . . High Sense Perception is a type of ‘seeing’ in which you perceive a picture in your mind without the use of your normal vision. It is not imagination. It is sometimes referred to as clairvoyance.”
