The Birth of the Universe - Scientific Breakthrough

by cofty 81 Replies latest social current

• 

  Viviane

  We do not exactly know what lies beyond the universe, in the rest of the cosmos, but the closer we get to the curtain, the better we can sense what is behind it. this discovery takes us a step closer.

  No no no!

  What lies in our universe IS the cosmos. What lies beyond, if anything, is completely unknown, not something that we "do not exactly know".

  The human brain will always strive for answers its how we are wired, but that wiring in conjunction with the physicality of its make up must have limitations, as can be seen from some responses on this forum.

  You are conflating two ideas, the capacity of a single human and the collective capacity of humanity.
• 

  prologos

  Viviane;-- in some european languages, the Universe is called the "ALL" like in 'World-ALL' but

  In much modern thought, our Universe /ALL is only a small part of the total. at least since 13.8 billion years ago. have 'a go' at it.

  There is an interesting parallel at the solar "surface": -- in one layer, the temperature is increasing with increasing heights. It is thought that magnetic or other waves account for this greater energy concentration.

  The detected gravity/ waves, vortices near the marble, could likewise originating in an earlier sequence, in times that predate the big bang, as opined some time ago, earlier, by Roger Penrose, the expert.
• 

  Twitch

  The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence, [1] [2] [3] [4] includingplanets, stars, galaxies, the contents of intergalactic space, the smallest subatomic particles, and all matter and energy. [5] [6] Similar terms include the cosmos, the world,reality, and nature.

  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe

  seems pretty modern and global to me

  if something is known to exist, it is part of the universe by definition
• 

  perfect1
• 

  Viviane

  Viviane;-- in some european languages, the Universe is called the "ALL" like in 'World-ALL'

  Good for them, we aren't speaking in some european languages, so it's utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

  In much modern thought, our Universe /ALL is only a small part of the total. at least since 13.8 billion years ago. have 'a go' at it.

  Absolutely and utterly wrong. If that were true, you wouldn't have had to claim (with no evidence, BTW) that what you are saying is true in some other language.

  The universe is the cosmos. Within our space time, the cosmos is that is or was or ever will be. Period. Full stop.

  There is an interesting parallel at the solar "surface": -- in one layer, the temperature is increasing with increasing heights. It is thought that magnetic or other waves account for this greater energy concentration.

  Completely irrelevant to you trying to claim that the universe is only a small part of the universe and that we know what is outside our spacetime.

  The detected gravity/ waves, vortices near the marble, could likewise originating in an earlier sequence, in times that predate the big bang, as opined some time ago, earlier, by Roger Penrose, the expert.

  No, absolutely NOT. They did NOT discover gravity waves near the early marble of spacetime. Define what "time" you mean before spacetime existed. Without doing that, you are saying time happened before time happened. You clearly don't even understand what the discovery was, much less what it means, and certainly not what Roger Penrose meant.
• 

  prologos

  you well defined the limits of your understanding. there is more out there then you are aware of.

  of course my outlook is limited, but I am not a loner in that.

  these are good discussions even if we err.

  show some imagination, the works of Penrose are relevant to these new discoveries, going further back than the emergence of light . and

  think of the multiverse theories that were popular when it became apparent that random events would not give enough time to have planets, life come about just in our neck of the woods.

  Rather than comment on my state of mind concentrate on the subject and show where we can all learn.
• 

  prologos

  Comments on this discovery, as in 'New scientist' artcles clearly shows that researchers are looking beyond the beginning of THIS UNIVERSE (the ALL) into the pre-big-bang COSMIC time as a scource or link of the gravitity waves, that show what happened before light could emerge from this cauldron.

  do not limit your understanding to our little neighbourhood. these are COSMIC, not universal questions.

  not that I am a fan of the multiverse or Sir Roger Penrose's ideas, but to think there was nothing, no time, no energy before our arrangement (Universe, ALL) came along, is far fetched. and

  these new discoveries open the real possibilities that the continuity beyond the beginning is so.
• 

  galaxie

  Viviane,...A collective of Ferraris revving their heads off, will only be as good as the one engine which lasts longest.

  You would have to physically join the engines or modify to increase better performance.

  Not possible with the human brain.That capacity remains within one brain.The only difference being influence to change opinion.

  The physical make up of the brain puts the same constraints on all, otherwise we are talking supernatural which is a whole different ball game.

  Best wishes
• 

  cofty

  I don't understand your point galaxie.

  We don't discover things by peering into the recesses of our minds, we devise tools like Hadron colliders and Hubble telescopes and then the best minds collaborate to make sense of the data.

  Your point is like saying the biggest weight a human can lift is restrained by the strength of muscle fibres. You are forgetting about levers.
• 

  galaxie

  Cofty,...of course the tools the human brain can devise are exactly within the capacity of human understanding ie the brain has reasoned beforehand as to why such things as you have mentioned are constructed. My point is the physical make up ie tissue, nerve, proteins all have a limit we cant go beyond it unless something is added to the mix.

  It begs the question imo that there may be "things"beyond our actual capacity of understanding.

  The spark of creation for example we can only ever investigate within the constraints of our capacity, otherwise you would have to argue our brains have limitless capacity.

  Everything in our world that we understand has a defined beginning and will ultimately end.

  The enigma of the universe/cosmos does not at our present understand seem to conform to our human rational, as we will always wonder what caused the initial spark and so on to infinity.

  Perhaps someday.

  Best wishes