@Bugbear The first christians started with small groups and indeed did meet in private homes. That is exactly as we do too. We meet wherever we can. However private homes can only offer a limited space and we also noticed that as soon as a nice Kingdom Hall is built there are a lot more people (interested ones) attending meetings. So, besides the fact that it offers more space and is a better facility to meet and conduct things like the theocratic ministry school and organise our ministry, a decent Kingdom Hall attracts a lot more visitors.
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget 324 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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baldeagle
I haven’t been to any meeting in almost five years. During that time I completed a successful fade from the organization after almost 40 years being baptized. The “Household Financial Survey” form as already stated here is not something new. While an elder over 25 years ago we used it to “survey” several circuits. This was done to see how much money would be donated in order to add a second auditorium to our existing Assembly Hall. The elders were invited to attend and participate in this discussion, at the Assembly Hall. We later went back and pitched this idea to our respective congregations.
Another time about 10 years ago we used a similar form distributed to 3 congregations sharing my hall (approx. 325 publishers). A major remodeling was being pushed by the KH “maintenance committee” (just a few strong-willed men). Bear in mind this hall was not that old, those living downtown in older rundown halls, would have loved to have ours. Nevertheless after several convincing “local needs” parts the survey forms were handed out.
These were filled out with no pressure or compulsion. No names were recorded and they were returned anonymously. The three congregations raised over $100K for a complete overhaul top to bottom with no financing required. Since I didn’t agree with the remodeling, I tossed my survey form in the garbage, and other families told me they did as well.
Recently we along with many other congregations in a wide perimeter were invited to raise money to buy an existing property to be converted into a KH well outside our territory. Again “survey” forms were handed out to be “anonymously” filled out and see if we had “Jehovah’s blessing” on this project. By this time I was “fading” I put my form in the shredder.
My point being if you don’t want to give money, toss out the form. The letter states, “The elders in congregations…..should take a confidential survey of all publishers to determine the amount of the new resolution. This can be done by passing out slips of paper to be filled out anonymously by the publishers indicating how much they are able to contribute monthly toward local congregation expenses, including the resolution to support Kingdom Hall and Assembly Hall construction worldwide.”
No one is policing these forms, no one asked me over the years if I donated or why not? Can they figure out who donated? Of course they could? Here in Canada, those that donate towards a Charitable Organization, would receive a “Tax Receipt” and get a tax deduction. When I was the accounts servant I would write these up and hand them out. So it’s very easy to see who’s supporting the congregation financially. But no one took any action towards any congregation members. I can’t see this being any different, but I have been wrong in the past.
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sir82
Baldeagle,
Yes, the forms are nothing new - as you have noted, they have been used frequently.
To me, though, this does appear to be different. In the past, the surveys were used to fund local projects with fixed deadlines. Once the project was over, the financial commitments indicated on the surveys were over.
Now, though, it appears that the intention is that these commitments carry on in perpetuity.
In my experience, it has always taken several - sometimes many - reminders to get the "friends" to cough up the money that they committed to give. Without those frequent and sometimes forceful reminders, actual contributions would not have even been 1/2 of what was committed.
So what happens when a congregation tells the WTS that they have "commitments" of, oh, say, $1000 a month, and yet the money collected and sent to the WTS is $400, $500, $600 per month, month after month after month?
Even if a congregation does manage to meet its obligations at first, what happens when Brother Wealthy (who supplied 1/3 of the amount each month) dies, or moves away, or gets disfellowshipped after 1 or 2 or 3 years?
That is absolutely, positively going to happen in 99.9% of the congregations.
I don't know the answer to those questions - but the speculations provided in this thread (reviewing tax forms, etc.) are not unimaginable.
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The Searcher
Emeth - I said to my wife before the meeting last night that after this announcement is made, we STOP trying to help our brothers see the truth about what the Org is all about, because if they accept this, pay through the nose, and carry on as normal, THEY DESERVE EVERYTHING THEY GET!!
Am I being too harsh? No!!
For the following reasons -
a) Witnesses do NOT study the Bible for themselves - they rely on a Writing Committee to do it for them, and accept that they are being told isthe truth.
b) Witnesses have willingly obeyed the Org and substituted the G.B. as their leader and Mediator - thereby rejecting Matthew 23:10 & 1 Timothy 2:5.
If you are genuinely a brother, examine these Scriptures to see if the GB's teachings are Bible-based.
Revelation 20:1-12 = Exactly when are the scrolls opened?; are they 'new'?; what is their purpose?
Romans 6:7 = Does a person's own death/blood wash away their sins, thereby giving them a 'clean' standing before God?
Galatians 2:1-14 = What impelled Paul to go to Jerusalem in connection with the circumcision debate? (V2) Did the apostles impart any new revelation to Paul? If Paul told the apostles, then where is the so-called "Governing Body"? Who therefore was used by the Holy Spirit to resolve the circumcion issue? If there was a "Governing Body", then Paul must have been guilty of "speaking abusively of glorious ones" (Jude 8) when he gave Peter a dressing-down for his hypocrisy - and should have been disfellowshipped.
Also, please open the Watchtower study article we did last Sunday - January 15 2014 pp. 28, 30 - and read paragraphs 6 & 14.
"They were not completely sure about what would happen" [in 1914]
Lie!! The Bible Students were certain of what was going to happen, because they'd been taught it for years, and they preached it!!
"When some of their expectations about what would happen in 194 did not come about....."
Lie!! It was Russells expectations - which he indoctrinated into the gullible who looked to him as the FDS.
If you refuse to obey 1 John 4:1 - as the GB in Brooklyn has commanded you (September 2007 Kingom Ministry - Question box) - then nothing anyone says to you will help you see the reality of what is going on.
Which begs the question - Why are you frequenting a website such as this, and speaking with so-called 'apostates'?
My conclusion? You are simply counting your time for the approval of your masters in the KH!
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bohm
Dear Emeth,
The first christians started with small groups and indeed did meet in private homes. That is exactly as we do too. We meet wherever we can. However private homes can only offer a limited space and we also noticed that as soon as a nice Kingdom Hall church is built there are a lot more people (interested ones) attending meetings sermons. So, besides the fact that it offers more space and is a better facility to meet and conduct things like the theocratic ministry school and organise our ministry whatever, a decent Kingdom Hall church attracts a lot more visitors.
Then, later, it was discovered what is true for churches over private homes is even more true for cathedrals over churches. For that reason there is nothing objectionable in the large estates and land holdings of our mother the Holy Catholic Church. For these reasons, Jesus would certainly have approved.
Sincerely,
The pope. -
AndDontCallMeShirley
Hey emeth- you still haven't answered my question: as a worshipper of the governing body, how do you justify being here on this "apostate" website???
Don't you really believe the GB represents Jehovah™ ? If you do, then why are you defying Jehovah™ by ignoring the counsel from his 'faithful slave'? The GB says to not visit apostate websites, yet here you are hypocritically defending WT on a site they've ordered you not to be on.
If you don't believe the GB speak for god, and that's why you do your own thing, then why are you defending WT? If it doesn't speak for Jehovah™ then you are defending just another sham religion.
Your hypocrisy nullifies anything you post here. Typical JW: claim you believe the GB represents god and that's why you must follow them with unquestioning obedience, but you defy the GB when it personally benefits you and ignore their orders when they don't agree with your personal opinions. Hypocrite!!
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BluePill2
TTATTelder:
Its totally a franchise/rental-landlord hybrid business model being rolled out progressively.
Bingo!
And hereby Ladies and Gentleman, I present you the McDonalds Franchise model. Do you think they make their profits with french fries? You are wrong. Check out their balance sheet and see where the real profits come from. Here a short explanation:
http://money.howstuffworks.com/mcdonalds2.htm
When I was at Bethel we had a Branch Committee member that worked closely with the Engineering guys up in New York and they where all wet and hot about the "McDonalds"-Business model and for a while they where working on "Standard" Kingdom Hall models that could be packaged and sent off to different developing countries (just like McD), they even rolled that out for Central America (defining to the chair how a Model A, B and C KH would look like). Later they scrapped the idea and went back to buildings "more appropriate" to the area (which means: rich ass Congos got Halls with comfy chairs and luxurious stuff and smaller rural areas, well brother, sit on that plastic chair that will break in a couple of months time, because you know, Jesus was wandering around in ugly sandals).
There you have it. Modeling the world.
Emeth? Ignore the troll. Son, there are more noble way to go through Life than trolling. Please, have some self-respect.
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Julia Orwell
I wonder how this tithe like arrangement will work in really poor countries. Is the head of a household of Zambian subsistence farmers going to be asked how much more of his little plot he can set aside to grow stuff to sell for contribution money? Or is the single mother of the Guatemalan child who raises a chicken, sells it for a dollar, and donates the dollar to the wt, going to have to make a pledge to have her child raise another chicken each year?
I've been to an Asian country where the jws travel to an assembly after saving all year. I heard of a sister who some days didn't even have 50 cents to buy rice for her children. A non jw neighbor or other might give her 50 cents so she and the kids get at least one meal that day. Jws who work 6 days a week and make a dollar a day and live in grass huts. These large extended Asian families living on nothing are discouraged from pooling their resources to send just one son or nephew to a more affluent country to send money back to the family or to school to get a better job to lift the family out of grinding poverty. How TF do they expect these people to make pledges? Or is this arrangement only for developed countries? In that case, not one cent will go to helping an ailing Burmese grandma or giving 50 cents a day so a widow's children can eat.
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hoser
Bluepill2 good link about mcdonalds corp. the watchtower real estate holding corporation runs a similar business model
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metatron
Guys, let's consider what events got us to this thread
Contributions have been slack for a long time. That's why they keep cutting and cutting and laying off. It appears to be getting worse because now they must cut assembly days 'cause the friends are broke!
That's the plain reality and no amount of talk about how loyal/stupid/suckered Witnesses are in obsequious servitude to the Grand Masters Of Time And Space (The Governing Body) changes that.
It's easy to get caught up in polemics when facing organized fanatics such as this. The reality is that much of their fanaticism is just to be seen and observed, not unlike the Pharisees. The Grand Deceivers at HQ know, for example, that many -perhaps most- Witnesses will compromise on blood transfusion if left alone, unobserved and confronted with medical authority. I can give you examples of total Trainwreck Witnesses who were weak/lousy examples (or inactive) but still wouldn't take blood as observed and known about.
Another point: don't get caught up in the stupid happy talk that misleads the dolts at HQ. For example, when the 'voluntary donation arrangement' came about there were rumors that the Society's advisers thought that money would flood in! They said that they would get paid twice - from donations from the public PLUS cash put in the contribution box by helpful publishers.
Instead, the whole arrangement was an immediate disaster. Likewise with food service at assemblies. Guess what folks? Communism really doesn't work!
Wiser heads at HQ might realize that this surveyed/enforced donation move is a sign of desperation. I'll keep watching and waiting for the end of printed magazines and unpaid local CO's.......
metatron