lisaBObeesa -
Did you read all that you just pasted? So you quote Martin Luther King, Jr. as if that's supposed to shut me up? Is that your appeal to authority (logical fallacy)? Problem is, I don't consider MLK to be an authority.
I wasn't even posting to you. I was just adding something to the thread about forgiveness. I PERSONALLY felt the MLK sermon on forgivness was really powerful and I identified with the things he said. That is why I posted it here in this thread.
So...peace, bother. I don't want you to shut up. I don't even think you are wrong. You are speaking your truth and your truth is your truth, period. I hope you never 'shut up.'
"First, we must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive."
Why, MLK, because you say so? Who the hell are you to tell me I must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive? Are you smarter than I am? I doubt it. Do you have more insight than I do? I doubt it.
Again, the post was not directed at you. I was just adding what I thought were some very wise words about forgiveness to this thread.
If you don't want to forgive, don't forgive.
I understand where you are coming from. There are pleanty of people on this board and in this thread that feel the same as you. Life is complicated and different for everybody...We are all just doing what we think is right, the best we can. What is right for one perosn is not always right for another person.
lisaBObeesa - do you really think the "barrier to the relationship" between JWs and those who doubt/question/challenge them will ever break down? Do you really think that our forgiving the org/JWs will be a "catalyst creating the atmosphere necessary for a fresh start and a new beginning". What a load of kumbaya BS! The only way you will ever get a fresh start and new beginning with JWs would be to kiss their asses, bow to their super Jedi Knight GB, and hang your head in shame and admit how stupid you've been not to have seen all their wonderful light. You would start off "fresh" all right - right at the bottom. If you're a brother, you might get to carry a microphone after a year or so.
Well, if you really want to know what I think, I'll tell you.
I think that "forgiving the org" is not something that is possible. I can see forgiving a person or people, but an organization is not a person. To me, forgiving an organization is like forgiving a rock or a tree. It makes no sense to me.
I've had a really hard time forgiving my JW sister who, in my eyes, destroyed our family with her terrible JW shunning of our mother. For the last 17 years or so (i've said 20 years before, but really it's more like 17...) ...for 17 years I've been in the "how can I forgive/ I don't think I should forgive/ I can't forgive because she keeps hurting us all" camp. I was in that camp because that is where I was at the time and there was really nothing I could do to move out of that camp. But I was always turning it over in my mind, trying to not forgive, but to make peace with it, trying to move on from it, trying to stop being angry about it and just accept it. After all, it's been 17 years! That's almost two decades of being really, really angry. But the anger would never leave. It just stayed.
But three weeks ago, after 17 years of this, I found that I could 'accept the apology that she will never give me.' And finally, I can let it all go. Finally I can accept the situation and move on.
I find it to be a great relief. I also feel real love towards her again, something that had been burried under layers of pain and anger.
And now, maybe one day, my sister and I can speak again. Because at least on my side now I'm open to it. Before, I was not.
This is what I have expereinced. This might not be possible or even the right thing to do for someone else. This is just something that I have gone through very recently so it is kind of a big deal for me right now, and I guess that is why I was so moved to post on this thread...
"Third, we must not seek to defeat or humiliate the enemy but to win his friendship and understanding."-MLK
OK, again, I don't answer to MLK; he's not my authority. He doesn't tell me what to do just as JWs don't. But just to analyze what he said... "we must not seek to defeat the enemy" - what??? Why not?
The person I needed to forgive was my JW sister. I did not and do not want to defeat or humiliate her. I DID want to change her behavior. I DID want to change her mind. I DID want to convince her she was wrong and I was right. But I didn't want to 'defeat' her.
I would like to 'defeat' the Organization, but to me, that has nothing to do with the topic of forgiveness, since as I said before, I don't think you can ''forgive' things, only people. I don't want to defeat the people in the org, either. I want to win them over and help them out of the trap that is the Org.
The Org is a thing, a trap. It's not alive. I can't kill it or kick its butt or hurt it or defeat it, as much as I would like to. I can only try to help people out of it. That's how I see it, anyway.
LisaB - Do you really think you're going to win the friendship and understanding of the org by forgiving it? You only win its friendship if you serve it and slave for it and sacrifice for it and worship it.
No, I don't. I don't think it is possible to have the 'friendship and understanding' of a thing. Even if I could, I don't want and NEVER wanted the friendship and understanding of the org.
Plus, the motivation to forgive my sister was not to 'win her friendship and understanding,' either. The motivation to forgive her was to heal and move on and to be able to open my heart to her again should the opportunity ever again arise. And if one day that opportunity does arise, then my having forgiven her will indeed be the "catalyst creating the atmosphere necessary for a fresh start and a new beginning".
I've shared these things as personal experience and I am not telling you or anyone else what to do.
Each person's situation is individual and unique...
-Lisa
...OUTLAW