How is the org really run? What goes on behind the scenes?

by Magnum 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Magnum

  Apognophos: I have to agree with Syme. The GB naturally have total control of the org. because they are the Slave and nobody would dare defy them.

  But your reasoning is the same as Syme's. You're just going by the message they present to the public. Can we trust that message? I agree that the org says the GB is the slave and that it's in control, but the org also says that all apostates are Satanic liars who want the flock to follow them. The org said there was an evil slave class that was beating it. The org says it participates in disaster relief out of love. So, again, do we believe the GB is all-powerful because the org says it is? We know what the org says, but what we're asking is whether what the org says is true.

  Your reasoning is like this: The GB have control of the org. How do I know? They say so. You have no evidence one way or the other.
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  jgnat

  It's a three-way triangle, unbreakable. No one side of the triangle can operate without the other. Let's see if I remember this right. There's the GB, the printing arm, and the congregations.

  The GB holds copyright.

  The printing arm prints, of course.

  The congregations are legally separate.

  The GB are nothing without a "voice" (print). The printers can't print without the GB. The congregations distribute the printing and feed funds back in to the system. Without funding, the GB and the printing arm are dead in the water. I ask you, what is a Witness without a publication?

  So NOBODY IS IN CHARGE. This is a self-perpetuating entity (corporation) with no "off" button.
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  Apognophos

  The GB have control of the org. How do I know? They say so. You have no evidence one way or the other.

  I'm curious, how much time have you spent in and around U.S. Bethel?
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  Magnum

  I'm curious, how much time have you spent in and around U.S. Bethel?

  Almost zero. I've only been to Watchtower Farms and that was for only a couple of hours close to thirty years ago. I have a feel for Bethel based only on what I've read and heard and based on the words, actions, etc. of Bethelites I know. That has given me a very negative feel for Bethel, but has not given me any indication as to who is actually in control.

  Are you going to say that one who has had some exposure to Bethel can get a feel for who's in control? If so, I don't dispute that; I'd like to know.
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  Syme

  Listener, you might have a point in there.

  On the one hand, the GB can easily delete or DF any BoD member who goes astray. On the other hand, even without privileges, one can still retain his legal position in the WTS. But hey... to keep his legal position one must be elected by the Board. And of course, if the GB says to the other Board members ''do not elect him", what do you think will happen?

  Again, the legal authority is completely subject to the religious authority of the GB. Except, of course, if a general uprising in the Board occured, which would allow the Board to make its own decisions, uncontrolled. But that's science fiction, I think. Let's stick to reality, which, IMO, is the above-mentioned statement.
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  Apognophos

  Are you going to say that one who has had some exposure to Bethel can get a feel for who's in control? If so, I don't dispute that; I'd like to know.

  At the risk of sounding elitist, I do think it makes a difference what exposure one has had to the organization at Bethel. I grew up around the headquarters and got to know some high-ranking Bethel elders (I can't be specific because I'm still fading and it would identify my congregation). I sensed nothing but sincerity from them. The devotion of some of them to the org. is almost chilling. It's not just a job to them; they are very zealous about the standards and beliefs of JWs.

  Likewise, the majority of the posters here who knew high-ranking brothers (higher than I did, including GB members) lean towards the "sincerely deluded" school of thought and away from "knowingly deceptive, outright scammers". Randy Watters was an exception, at least in terms of believing that the GB was not in charge even if they were nevertheless sincere, but as metatron stated on page 2, he didn't provide any evidence for his assertion of a "power behind the throne" and so it ended up sounding a lot like something you'd hear in Loose Change.

  Of course the GB can still be led by what they're advised is necessary to legally or financially support the organization's continued existence, but in their minds, I think they believe they're defending God's organization. Sure, they have knowledge of false teachings by the Society, but they probably reason as many JWs do -- "It's still the closest thing to the truth. Who else is [yada yada]?"
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  Hermano

  If there was some puppet master controlling the GB Ray Franz would've written about it.

  I'm with jgnat on this, at this point it's a runaway train. It has a life of its own. The GB are all deluded, captives of a concept. They have wagered their entire lives on "The Truth". They are surrounded by equally deluded men who have also wagered their entire lives on "The Truth." These people believe more than the average witness. They have wagered more, and so they NEED to believe more than the average witness who has somewhat of a normal life (job, bills to pay, house, a vacation once in a while, rubbing elbows with the occasional decent non-witness). It's all they have. It's their identity. It is their entire life.

  To us on the outside the changes look like a money grab. To them, they are being discreet and ensuring the survival of the Organization until the big A comes. "And yes, it has taken longer than we thought it would. But the Bible foretold that many would mock and say where is the promised presence. That in itself is a fulfillment of prophecy and a reminder of how close the end is." Blah... blah.... blah...

  I have no doubt that there a few awake individuals in Bethel. But there's not much they can do. No one person can take this thing down. There are checks and balances. If one or two GB members wake up and try to shake things up they'll beat down by the rest of the GB. Even if the entire GB woke up at once, they would not be able to institute radical changes overnight. There would still be men at Bethel that would identify them as apostates and a schism would develop. So even the GB don’t have absolute control.
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  jgnat

  Sometimes the biggest truths are told in story books:

  http://robertmunsch.com/book/jonathan-cleaned-up
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  kneehighmiah

  I have relatives at bethel. I dont believe the governing body has been running the show since they were booted off the board of directors. Guys like franz and jarcz nearly wrecked the organization. They are figurehead now. Very powerful figureheads. The corporation presidents are the neck that turn the head. I've met Leon weaver before. I believe ray franz mentioned him in his book. He's an organization enforcer and very smart. The governing body like most anointed ones we know are weirdos. They have no education or training to run a billion dollar company. No legal or management experience. When you see child abuse policy changes, the new financial scheme and elimination of overseers, that's the work of the corporate heads. Franz and jarcz as I mentioned nearly ran the ship into the ground. The corporation presidents call the shot now and the governing body just signs off. And by corporations I also mean the legal department. The governing body only deals with giving talks and doctrinal things.
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  nonjwspouse

  In view of the legal positioning changes, wouldn't you think the lawyers have a big say, and also recieve a big paycheck from the WT?

  After all, a lawyer is the one that created the JW and many of the changes to the WT from IBSA.