Family dynamics and the Org.

by LDH 64 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Grunt

  My wife read my answer to Xandit and said I should try and say something positive. As I respect my wife, I will. I really don't like negativity.

  Xandit and any other witness lurking or posting here, there are some postive things to say to you. First of all I admire you for being here and for speaking your mind. I hope you continue to do just that. Second, there are many, many, parents in the Jehovah's Witnesses who refuse to shun their children, even though they are opposed to the organization. My parents are among those. They and you, go against the teachings of men by continuing to speak and show love and concern to even those who have left the organization and I admire your and their largeness of heart and soul in doing so. If I ever come across as harsh, judgemental or mean, please let me ask your pardon for that. I do not judge you, though I do judge the organization as they say I should, yes I have a lot of quotes on that but am not going to bore you with even one. (unless you ask of course) What I hope you find is the vision to see that Jesus is a Lamb, not a Royal Rider of a Celestial Chariot about to make Apostates the Main Course in their own demonic meal when the Great War Cry goes forth and the Table of Demons is destroyed. I want you to be able to read stuff like that and the following and see that you are being commanded by people other than Jesus Christ but people who use that name and the name Jehovah, to get people like us to go along with what they say. Just as was done in the middle ages. Nothing new under the sun. The Witnesses are not the only ones who do what they do. Russell admitted he had not come up with new stuff just combined a bunch of things other people believed. Read this and see if you see manipulation and jargon as clearly as I do.

  W91 3-15 p 17

  If we are keeping pace with the chariotlike angelic organization, we will promptly comply with direction and instructions received through God’s visible organization. Jehovah provides what we need to meet attacks on our faith, to maintain our grip on the Word of life, and to keep our eyes fixed on the spiritual realities that center on the Royal Rider of the celestial chariot.
• 

  Xandit

  I just really get fed up with the:

  I would have been a cheer leader, homecoming queen, quarterback, brain surgeon, Doctor of Origami, rich and famous, Olympic gold medal winner, found a cure for cancer, etc. etc. ad infinitum ad nauseum

  EXCEPT I WAS RAISED BY THOSE DASTARDLY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

  Too many here have found themselves a life long crutch, a life long excuse, for everything that doesn't work in their lives. Get real, what you are is what you most likely would have been. People have overcome obstacles compared to which being a Witness is a fart in a whirlwind and gone on to be successful by any definition of the word. The eternal "woe is me" attitude gives me the hives. Wallow in it if you will, you are doing more harm to yourself than the organization ever could have.
• 

  Xandit

  Grunt your compendium is intellectually dishonest. You can prove whatever you like with one from column A - Z.
• 

  LDH

  Xandit,

  MOST of the time I try to be middle of the road on 'issues' concerning people's childhoods. But, for the sake of fun, let's re-word what you wrote, to be a little bit more accurate.

  (Your assumption that all adult children of JWs are bitter is noted, and although not accurate, will be used for the sake of the argument.Your sarcastic tone has been somewhat tempered)

  I would have been a cheer leader, homecoming queen, quarterback, brain surgeon, Doctor of Origami, rich and famous, Olympic gold medal winner, found a cure for cancer, etc. etc. ad infinitum ad nauseum

  How about the more accurate:

  I would have loved to have been a cheer leader, homecoming queen, brain surgeon, infinitum ad nauseum. Unfortunately, the time to get on the road to most of those life goals occurs sometime in late adolescence. As it stands, I spent a great deal of that time wrapped up in religious pursuits that I no longer believe to the degree which I believed earlier. I now have a family for whom I have responsibility for; therefore I have neither the time nor the money to attend college. Although I now feel that a great deal of my life was wasted, at the time I was doing what I believed Jehovah wanted me to do, so no harm done. However, I would never require *my* child to spend so much time in pursuits that lead nowhere! I WILL allow my child to develop his/her personality and *selfishly* spend time in recreational activities that are necessary for his/her growth. I will also encourage other parents to do the same.

  Xandit, this not only sounds more accurate, but from firsthand knowledge of close personal friends raised as JWs, I know it is accurate.

  A side point, which is where I'm thinking we differ, many people raised as JWs had what I would have termed 'liberal'. However, quite a few of us on this board *know* that these people weren't considered a 'strong JW.' Matter of fact, you could be classed as 'weak' or 'bad association' as easily as snapping your fingers! So perhaps this is where the discrepancy is! That's why there is such a sarcastic reaction to you purporting how many things you got to do as a JW child! It just doesn't ring true to the actual experience of 'strong' JWs.

  But of course, I forgot, you don't have to 'define' yourself.
• 

  Xandit

  You can slice it any way you like lady. How convenient for you that you came from a "strong" JW family. That way you've got someone to blame. That's what you're really look for isn't it? Someone to blame. The path of the slopey shouldered is such an obvious one.
• 

  LDH

  MAYBE I missed it. I didn't see anywhere in my posts where I 'blamed' anyone for anything. I don't really have anything to 'blame' anyone for. It's not like I'm broke, stupid, ugly, need braces didn't get em, attending 12-step meeting for overeaters anonymous, uneducated and weak-minded. On the contrary I have been all over the world, I'm happy (until people like you piss me off), and have a wonderful marriage and family. I wish all of my friends could be as *cursed* as I am.

  I also said how much I love and admire my parents. It's not easy for anyone to stay married, and successfully raise a family. I also 'happen to know' that they would do things a little differently if they had children at home now. I know that quite a few parents would.

  Your postulations that something that comprised such a large part of people's lives has no effect on their later years, I find to be rather foolish. I'd like to see you present this to a panel of Psychotherapists and Psychologists.

  Haven't you seen how many on this board have been and still are in therapy? I've never been, but if I decided it would be something that could help me I'd go in minute. People who stay the course of self-introspection and examination through therapy are to be commended. There are people who have been very deeply scarred by their experiences, and just because they don't all jump up and down and post their messages on this board doesn't mean they don't exist.
  I, of course, play Devil's advocate. I receive emails from people who just don't want their experiences torn down by sarcastic rude people like you who minimize the impact of years of religious indoctrination and inculcation. So they choose to remain in the shadows.

  While someone like you who isn't even brave enough to post your freakin email address or tell your status in the congregation sits back and criticizes.

  Get some balls and then come back and try again.
• 

  larc

  Hi all,

  When I read all this, I get mixed fellings about being ambivalent.:):)

  Now, Xandit you know that some things are irreversable. It's hard to be a high school cheer leader when you are thirty years old. However, I do agree, that once one leaves or even if they are still in, they can take steps to get an education. I had no scholarships, no student loans, and no financial help from parents. I worked full time and went on to get advanced degrees. JAVA didn't start college until he was 40 and has a master's degree. I believe that anyone who has spent time pioneering has enough energy to get a degree. Is it easy? Hell no. But it is far more interesting than watchtower studies and pioneer service.
  Xandit, I think you underestimate the degree and frequency of the traumas that many have faced, and although many here open up their hearts and express it, most get off the board and go about improving their lives. I can tell you sad stories here, but that doesn't mean that I don't take care of business and also have a good time when I'm not here. What you see here is not a "representative sample" of what we are about, but a slice of us that we wish to share because it provides what Harry Stack Sullivan called, "consensual validation", that is, it demonstrates we are not the only ones who have experienced particular difficulties. That is a good thing to know.

  Xandit, I still would like to know where your kingdom hall is located. I would like to visit. Also, I am curious. When you have a Bible study, do you tell people that it is all true or do you share your reservations with them? Myself, I would have trouble teaching people something I only thought was half true.
• 

  mommy

  WOW! I don't know how I missed this thread either!
  Xandit, I agree, I hate to hear people "wallow" and stay down there. There comes a time when you as an individual have to pick yourself up and say, "Ok life, I am playing by my rules now"
  BUT This DB is for ex jw and current jws who have been through similiar experience.This db is here for us so we can get over our past and move on. It is easier to accept the past and the feelings you have if you can discuss it with like minded people.
  I feel you are not one of those. You are still looking through your rose colored glasses, and have never really felt as the others have.
  So I ask that you keep your comments above the table, and respect that others have had bad experiences. You really have no place to talk if you have never been shunned and continue to live a happy JW life.
  thanks,
  wendy
• 

  happytobefree

  Xandit,

  Why wait for paradise, when you already live in it?

  I think when most post, they are expressing some point of their life experience. I have never read a post and thought, oh how miserable that persons life is. Because I can truly speak for myself, I have a wonderful life, I have a college degree, 3 wonderful children (not raised as JW and are wonderful), a wonderful and supportive husband, had a wonderful job (quit to pursue my passions, but still have a home-based business). But I can tell you, while accomplishing all of this, it was at a great cost, because I was wrought with fear and guilt, that I was doing it for all of the wrong reasons. I really felt bad, that I would rather spend a day with my family at the beach, rather than a day in field service and etc.

  And yes, there are liberal JW's, that's the reason I have a college degree (my father believed in higher education, he has 2 bachelor degrees). But you can bet that we have been viewed as materialistic, weak, immoral, you name it.

  So when I read your sarcastic post, I say a little prayer for you. Because you are what the JW call a fence sitter (you don't know which yard you want to play in). You make me angry sometime, and I think because you remind me of what I have worked so hard to escape. But mostly, I feel sad, that you could be so uncaring about others level of pain, and when you criticize their outlet (which is what this db is to me) of freeing the pain, once again I pray that you can stop hurting also.

  Happy to be Free (Me)
• 

  somebody

  Here are 2 words that Xandit is too selfish for, has no room for, or use for in his life.

  em*pa*thy (noun)

  [Greek empatheia, literally, passion, from empathes emotional, from em- + pathos feelings, emotion -- more at PATHOS]pathy

  First appeared 1904

  1 : the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it

  2 : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this
  ------------------

  sym*pa*thy (noun), plural -thies

  [Latin sympathia, from Greek sympatheia, from sympathes having common feelings, sympathetic, from syn- + pathos feelings, emotion, experience -- more at PATHOS]

  First appeared 1579

  1 a : an affinity, association, or relationship between persons or things wherein whatever affects one similarly affects the other

  b : mutual or parallel susceptibility or a condition brought about by it

  c : unity or harmony in action or effect

  2 a : inclination to think or feel alike : emotional or intellectual accord

  b : feeling of loyalty : tendency to favor or support <republican sympathies>

  3 a : the act or capacity of entering into or sharing the feelings or interests of another

  b : the feeling or mental state brought about by such sensitivity <have ~ for the poor>

  4 : the correlation existing between bodies capable of communicating their vibrational energy to one another through some medium

  synonym see ATTRACTION, PITY