Yes you are right Apognophos in a sense. I was mainly referring to the Bibles 'prophetic path' involving human beings and the 'seed' and it's fulfilment. I guess that part might be over. Why this 2,000 apparent year gap where we are told he is coming virtually any and every day?
And yes it's very possible that people could be having genuine experiences and interactions with the Biblical 'Divine Being' and not writing great books about it but why then keep it secret?
In 2,000 years something more would have leaked no? Yes there are some stories of such things taking place but again how can one ever confirm or really proveany of it?. It's still more of the 'he said she said' scenario. Second hand tales.
Still whatever the case it's nothing for me to base my own faith on. The God of the Bible and Jesus did not say a rare few scattered through the centuries would know him.. he said anyone and everyone can know him and experience him in all fullness. This I guess is more my point. This invitation was extented to every living person. All mankind.
Long distance relationships are very hard to sustain even more so with silent partners.
Losing Faith in Faith..
by Dis-Member 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
Dis-Member
-
tootired2care
"Let's be honest here.. there simply is no verifiable testabable evidenece for a God.. if there was someone would have won the nobel prize by now".
This is a great point. If the bibles claims are true that there are angels manipulating the physical realm, protecting people etc., we would have overwhelming evidence of it by now. Why? We live at a time where practically everyone has a personal video recording device on them at all times. Yet, there are zero, nada, zilch, authentic recordings out there, which prove anything even remotely supernatural has ever occured.
-
Apognophos
And yes it's very possible that people could be having genuine experiences and interactions with the Biblical 'Divine Being' and not writing great books about it but why then keep it secret?
Again, we've had people on this very forum who would tell you what Jesus has been speaking to them. Far from keeping it a secret, they speak to anyone who will listen. My point is that you are now seeing things differently than you did before. Claims of divine experiences have not stopped -- you have simply come to doubt that they're real.
If the bibles claims are true that there are angels manipulating the physical realm, protecting people etc., we would have overwhelming evidence of it by now.
Because of this fact, it's a fundamental assumption of modern believers that spirit creatures, whether good or bad, are determined not to be seen. Apparently the demons don't want to be observed because it suits them to not be believed in; and God and the angels don't want to be observed because it would remove the need for faith. Never mind that they used to appear all the time in the Bible. Requiring faith in the unseen is now the #1 hot button issue for God. Not fixing the mess in the Middle East; playing hide and seek with his followers.
-
Giordano
Looked at another way, if the natural language of god........is silence....... then everything else is a bad translation.
-
EndofMysteries
Proof of God - if you remove everything that any holy book says and just ask if there is proof of a creator, then many see within the world, life, processes, etc, all the factors needed for life and it's complexity as too impossible to all be by chance. For many that is the proof there. However that doesn't answer what he is doing now, if he is still around, etc.
If you put the bible in the picture for potential reasons why it's so hard to know why man seems to be on their own right now, there are some scriptures that may answer that. Some talking about the times of the gentiles (which allow man to rule the world). Scriptures about the "master" going away and when he returns he checks what his people have been doing. (if you take that literally then maybe he is literally away for now).
If he is testing man, perhaps he has decided the way to see a man's true self is to allow him to think he doesn't exist and see what he does.
-
Dis-Member
John 8:24-29
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith He to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.This shows that doubts are normal and Jesus did not consider it a mortal sin. Wanting proof is normal.
The other apostles would have aleady believed and had faith because they lived with Jesus on a daily basis and saw all his miracles. Thomas too despite the same experience still doubted and was given proof by Jesus himself.
Are we not allowed the same having never seen or experienced a single thing?
"blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed" is no more a law or requirment than is "Blessed are the poor in spirit". Again we are being asked to have faith in the faith of Thomas who lived 2,000 years ago. (if that is even true)
More second hand stories. -
Rescripting_myself
Dis-Member,
I share the perspective you have expressed regarding faith. If deity is the person it is interpreted to be from what is gleaned from biblical writings - whether a singular person or three persons constituting one deity or whatever other interpretation that sees deity as a person - to have personal faith, from my perspective requires direct interaction and not hand me down accounts due to the challenges posed in verifying such accounts. If it were very vital that we hold a specific set of beliefs or perspective regarding the deity, logic tells me that the deity would directly convey to each one of us the information that we would need to exercise whatever faith the deity would require of us. The deity could then hold us to account for acting in accordance with or against such information.
-
Dis-Member
.. and people will say: "Oh but you only need to have faith!"
Faith in what? In God? In Jesus? I would dearly love to!
But I have never seen, met, heard or had any confirmable interaction from either God or Jesus ever in my life. So what people are really telling you to have faith in is the opinions, views, intepretations, research, studies, writings, rantings, and mere gossip of others that you have also never seen, met, heard or had any interaction with. (not that that would make any difference)
For me to have a real non-fantasy faith I need it to come from God or Jesus themselves and no one else. The faith that God and Jesus ask of us surely can not come from or be based merely upon a story of a story of a story of a story of a rumour of half a tale.
Neither can it be based upon my own pathetic ability to determine and decipher what was the 'truth' of events that may or may not have taken place in some cases up to four and a half thousand years ago.
The Bible says that he is not the historical God of fable and legend but the 'Living True God of Now'.
In all our weakeness, imperfection, fallibility, insecurity, living in a world full of millenia of uncertainty, lies, deception and fraud, it would be a very small thing for this living God to not leave us fumbling in the dark but to reach out one little finger and just touch us and let us know he is here.. -
disposable hero of hypocrisy
Flipping heck man, are you in my head?
Nicely articulated..I'm wit ya dude.
-
Dis-Member
I think this is in everyone' head. I'd go as far as to say its in the heads 99% of the people in this forum.