Dismember, Thanks again for posting this. I watched it last night, and for the first time atheism made sense. I've before described myselft as an "Agnostic Christian Atheist", which to me means that I really don't care about if there is a God or not because he doesn't seem to care about us, although I believe the morals instilled by the Christian way of life have some importance in our life and merit attention, but deep down I feel that there is no God. That's the simplest way of putting the messed up state my mind is in. After listening to Dan's reasoning, atheism makes a lot more sense. I want to get his book "Godless", and read it.
Losing Faith in Faith..
by Dis-Member 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
happy@last
This video goes quite well with this subject, hope it's not hijacking the thread:
-
Dis-Member
@ Pronomono:
Yeah crazy right?
I would not describe myself as an atheist.. I have just come to the conclusion that I am no longer going to try to seek God in a 'organisation', a religion, a building, or a book, (or many books as in 66 so called Bible books), or in others opinions.
It seems that spirituality has been turned into an intellectual and academic exercise requiring vast study, the devotion to many books
and endless lifelong research upon research. I'm sick of it as I am sick and weary of the millions of opinions and variations of truth and that every single person claims he or she the 'real' truth.
I simply refuse to accept anything from people any more with their second-hand invented interpretations.
I don't want to find God with my brain either.. If I find him at all I want to find him with my heart and feel him with my spirit. Studying endless scriptures does not help anyone to find God. The living God is not to be found in any building and certainly not between the pages of a book.
According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there are approximately 41,000 Christian denominations and organizations in the world.
41,000 different Christian denominations!!! 41,000 different versions of truth from that same one book called the Bible!! And that's just the denominations, with individuals there are as many versions of truth as there are people on earth!
That's insane.
So who is right? Each one thinks that they are.I will no longer trust or rely on any person or any book. I don't need to study or have someone teach be about an old historical antiquated God whose last apparent major interaction with humans was almost 3,300 years ago.
I need nothing less than to experience the 'Living God'. -
pronomono
That's a good creed to live by. I was thinking a few of the same thoughts last night and came to the conclusion that my goal is to not live by any man's creed except for my own. To make my own decisions and conclusions about God, life, etc. I still place a lot of importance on researching JWs, other religions and belief systems, and reasoning on such because when I finally reject the JW way of life, I want there to be no doubt in my mind that I made the right choice.
Even with all the negative evidence pointing towards JWs, I still have an inkling of a belief that they could be right if God could be proven to exist. Ultimately, it comes down to me that if you are not allowed to prove to yourself things that are true, righteous, and just without being disfellowshipped, then there is obviously something wrong. But is it worth losing family and friends? A God that tells you he came to divide households and families (and then you see it in action) loses a lot of respect from me. And lack of verifiable contact makes me wonder how much of a hand God really has in any religion.
One of the biggest faith-bolstering arguments for JWs was the conversion stories of how people made drastic changes in their lives and personally seeing the effect it has had on close family members - from my father-in-law who was a mentally diseased drunken, violoent, alcoholic to my sister with chronic depression over the multitude of long-term sicknesses and physical disorders that she has been diagnosed with over her lifetime. I have seen drastic changes in behaviors and moods for the better. I spent a lot of time reading conversion stories between other religions, denominations, and deconversions. It's funny that every group has their own PR stories like this. It's a little different when you see it for yourself. But you realize that it's mostly mental, psychosomatic. They could have made these changes on their own if they only believed in themselves. I could make the change if only I believed in myself.
Sorry for getting a little off topic. I just started typing and wound up here. lol
-
Dis-Member
It's a little different when you see it for yourself. But you realize that it's mostly mental, psychosomatic. They could have made these changes on their own if they only believed in themselves. I could make the change if only I believed in myself.
Not off topic at all. I think the same. I too made drastic and vast changes to my lifestyle behaviour and personality. But I'm thinking now I could just as well have done all that on my own. I also wonder did I really actually do it for God? Or did I do it to gain love and approval from members of the congregation and elders etc. Peer pressure and the desire to conform can be incredibly powerful motivational forces.
I guess if one steps away from the pressure and need to please one will see what's really left.
-
jgnat
I believe it pays to reach for an ideal, as Victor Frankl explains in this talk. Perhaps it helps some to imagine that ideal to strive for, to have an exemplary life.
http://www.ted.com/talks/viktor_frankl_youth_in_search_of_meaning
-
Crazyguy
I believe that there must be a creator but this thing would be way beyond the personality of the gods of the bible. I mean really get pissed of because someone fails a small test then allow death and evil and torture for thousands of years to prove that we need him. Yet at the same time does nothing to prove we need him wanthim or that he even eexists. I have more love in my heart then the god of the bible, and I'm just an imperfect man.
So anyway the bible's crap, I have studied ancient religion and ancient history to confirm it.
-
givemejustalittlemoretime
The bible is a testomony of Christ throughout the ages. THe confirmation of him alive comes from within you. The unveiling and revealing of Christ in you will come to all whether we believe or not
-
Dis-Member
THe confirmation of him alive comes from within you.
Pardon? The Bible says not to ever trust our own hearts as nothing is more deceitful or corrupt and never rely on our own understanding in anything at al?
Yet now you tell me to just make it all up from within myself? Sounds like a great plan.
More Madness..
-
ablebodiedman
Ultimately, it comes down to me that if you are not allowed to prove to yourself things that are true, righteous, and just without being disfellowshipped, then there is obviously something wrong. But is it worth losing family and friends? A God that tells you he came to divide households and families (and then you see it in action) loses a lot of respect from me.
Pronomono,
Follow the Governing Body and its Watchtower corporation?
or
Follow Jesus Christ?
It's a choice that brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, uncles and aunts are making!
Yes, disfellowshipping is a consequence of the decision to follow Jesus Christ:
Romans 9:26
and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’"
[Name of person] is no longer a Jehovah's Witness - ‘YOU are not my people,’
The wheat is being seperated from the chaff:
Matthew 3:12
His winnowing shovel is in his hand, and he will completely clean up his threshing floor, and will gather his wheat into the storehouse, but the chaff he will burn up with fire that cannot be put out."
Jesus Christ is cleaning up his threshing floor!
Matthew 19:29
And everyone that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.
Jesus Christ did not say that following him would be easy however, everything he said would happen, is really happening!
Jesus Christ is awesome!
abe